Europe - In or Out?

[tony.mon]

I said nothing about foreign teachers undermining current teachers, but I have first hand experience and first hand experience of trying to get my kids into local schools.

Grammar school?

[StormingHonda]

I said nothing about foreign teachers undermining current teachers, but I have first hand experience and first hand experience of trying to get my kids into local schools.

Grammar school?

I will be the first to put my hands up and admit I should have taken more notice at school , I might have actually got somewhere.

[tony.mon]

I said nothing about foreign teachers undermining current teachers, but I have first hand experience and first hand experience of trying to get my kids into local schools.

Grammar school?

I will be the first to put my hands up and admit I should have taken more notice at school , I might have actually got somewhere.

Same here- I really resented knowledge being forced upon me, and resisted as much as I could.
Once I left school and could see the point of it; away I went. I'm watching my 21yo son go through the same process atm- he'll get there, but he's taking his time...

[freeridenick]

Interesting to see this thread has moved on to wider issues, although the red herring of immigration refuses to go way.

I have no evidence other than my logic (must read more articles on economics) but the financial disaster I believe will happen if we come out is enough to vote in.

The extent of the fallout can't be known but in the first instance a weakening pound is a given, as reported. The out campaign haven't, that I've read, given any indication of how they would reverse this. If it takes as long as as the last recession to recover from we're screwed: we'd be staring in our country-mirror with Greece reflected back.

On Obama's comments. He was asked to make those statements, I'm sure, and he probably believes them. We're one of the most powerful and influential nations in Europe with an economy that's expected to overtake Germany's. That means we have sway and adds value to our relationship with the US. If we're out what value do we have? Back of the queue!

Our relationship with the US isn't everything, and I'm not a huge supporter of it, but there's nothing from the out campaign to explain what the alternatives are. On the plus side we'd not have to worry about TTIP, although we'd have to be on the ball to make sure nothing worse comes our way.

[StormingHonda]

Interesting to see this thread has moved on to wider issues, although the red herring of immigration refuses to go way.

I have no evidence other than my logic (must read more articles on economics) but the financial disaster I believe will happen if we come out is enough to vote in.

The extent of the fallout can't be known but in the first instance a weakening pound is a given, as reported. The out campaign haven't, that I've read, given any indication of how they would reverse this. If it takes as long as as the last recession to recover from we're screwed: we'd be staring in our country-mirror with Greece reflected back.

On Obama's comments. He was asked to make those statements, I'm sure, and he probably believes them. We're one of the most powerful and influential nations in Europe with an economy that's expected to overtake Germany's. That means we have sway and adds value to our relationship with the US. If we're out what value do we have? Back of the queue!

Our relationship with the US isn't everything, and I'm not a huge supporter of it, but there's nothing from the out campaign to explain what the alternatives are. On the plus side we'd not have to worry about TTIP, although we'd have to be on the ball to make sure nothing worse comes our way.

I fail to see the immigration issue as a red herring, especially in my neck of the woods, and my issue with immigration isn't to do with whom but numbers and the impact it is having upon communities in every department.

I agree, our " special relationship " is overrated and out of date, we do have a ' camaraderie with the American public, and should never forget that we both have sacrificed and an obligation to each other in times of hardship and war, but that ' special ' relationship has been used and abused politically, to the point of making it a joke.

I believe the only part Obama lied about is not saying we are already at the back of the queue, and that he has a personal hate for the British public and has made no bones making that known. I believe the majority of Americans don't see it that way, but sadly people like Obama does.

[freeridenick]

I fail to see the immigration issue as a red herring, especially in my neck of the woods, and my issue with immigration isn't to do with whom but numbers and the impact it is having upon communities in every department .

The best figures I can find suggest only half the population growth in the UK over the last 15 years is down to net migration increases. The rest is natural growth, most of which will be births to British nationals. I haven't found rate of change figures yet.

Even if we closed the boarders tomorrow our population will still increase. The only way to deal with that is to spend money building schools, hospitals and houses, but this government won't do that because they don't believe it it. They believe in Neo-liberal economics which, in a pure sense, don't work just like pure Communism doesn't work.

That ignores the fact that we still need to take refugees and have open boarders to offset emigration and bolster sectors where we can't generate enough skilled labour internally.

So the immigration issues is a red herring. Far, far better would be conversation on how to reduce our reliance on the Financial sector to generate growth in our economy.

[StormingHonda]

No its not a red herring, half population growth should be alarming enough, we can throw figures about till we are blue in the face.

I for one welcome migrants with key skills that we need, but from experience, this is rarely the case, most migrants that come here do not have the skills required and some cant even speak English.

Do you realise that a lot of the skills they come in with are not even recognised, I had this with a Romanian engineer and his Nursing wife, great neighbors, but even though she managed to get a job in nursing, he just couldn't get a job in engineering anywhere because his qualifications were not recognised. I have been told that quite a lot of Nurses from Africa needed retraining and really weren't up to the job.

Open border, come on, no way, we might as well just pack up our bags and go, can you imagine the streams of economic migrants that would flood in?.

You are correct in saying that not enough schools, hospitals or housing is being built, and yes this and the last government do not seem interested, however contrary to the thinking we do not have that much land we can actually build on, without major ecological and flooding changes, its not even a secret you rip up forests to build houses you better be ready for major flooding in areas that have never seen flooding, you better be prepared for foxes and rats, rabbits and other creatures to start making unwanted appearances into now built up areas, and why the hell should we do this.

I couldn't care less if my neighbor was black, white or Asian or had a ' funny ' accent, however from my experience most of the immigrants are simply fodder for low paid, unskilled jobs, who have absolutely no interest in integrating into the community, and what often made it worse was the community was expected to bend over backwards for them.

Please tell me, why we need to take refugees, what is the benefit of this to me or anyone else?. There is plenty of talent and enough labour in this country, if only the government would invest into its own people, but it doesn't we need to off set that, not allow even more people in.

Here's my take on why I think big business and small companies are not only encouraging immigration from unskilled countries but put pressure on the government for more, we British have an expectation, we expect to have the means, to either rent a property and hopefully one day purchase a property, we expect to be able to afford some luxuries and at least to have a fairly good access to food and other amenities, we have an expectation of a good health service and our children access to a good education, this of course means that people need to be paid a fair wage, we also expect a good level of health and safety at work. This all costs the employers money, it costs the government money. If you get in unskilled workers from countries that have lower expectations then you can pay them less, you can give them less services you can make them live a lower standard of living and they will think they have still hit the jackpot, we cannot compete with these people.

For the companies employing people with lower working contracts on lower wages is good news for them, they couldn't care less about what they do as long as they are doing it cheap, this of course brings down traders prices in such things are the building trade, drivers, bus drivers and farming jobs. Forget the bullshit feed to everyone that British workers are over privileged and lazy, its just that some wages are never going to pay the bills.

As for the the financial sector, wow, do you realise that its probably the last realm we have left, every other sector has been allowed to nose dive for years, taken out of the public hands and given to private companies, hell we aren't even going to have the ability to make steel soon.

[MacV2]

So your voting exit then Jay ?

[StormingHonda]

So your voting exit then Jay ?

I am actually very pro Europe, the problem is I am not pro with what it has become.

[Watty]

So your voting exit then Jay ?

Nah he's bluffing

[MacV2]

So your voting exit then Jay ?

Nah he's bluffing

Buffing I didn't think you could polish a turd...

[simon t]

Apparently, according to storminghonda, I ( and other expats) shouldn't have a say in the EU referendum because I live elsewhere in the EU. Just the sort of xenophobic cr*p I was pointing out. As we still own two houses in the UK, I'm in receipt of a UK occupational pension, pay UK income tax and have four kids in the UK whose future we worry about, I'd say we have as much right to have a say in the future of the UK as anyone.

[Mav617]

Apparently, according to storminghonda, I ( and other expats) shouldn't have a say in the EU referendum because I live elsewhere in the EU. Just the sort of xenophobic cr*p I was pointing out. As we still own two houses in the UK, I'm in receipt of a UK occupational pension, pay UK income tax and have four kids in the UK whose future we worry about, I'd say we have as much right to have a say in the future of the UK as anyone.

Your opinion is equally or more valid than a 16 year old raised in Britain who came in from elsewhere and has UK Citizenship of course. If you vote to stay in, which you no doubt will as anything else would be hypocritical, that's your choice mate.

[redpig]

Save your breath all of you,
Only fear will decide the outcome.

I for one don't give a toss either way.

[Mav617]

Aye, apparently if we vote out there'll be no stopping WAR in Europe!! (apparently)