Europe - In or Out?

[Wicky]

Besides, If we leave Europe does that mean we can't enter the Eurovison Song Contest?

[Jamoi]

I can only hope that the ultimate decision, will be made by someone far better educated than myself, with the peoples future on our whole planet as the first priority.

[StormingHonda]

Besides, If we leave Europe does that mean we can't enter the Eurovison Song Contest?

Probably the most rigged and bizarre competition on the planet, Its a good reason.

[bigtwinthing]

I can only hope that the ultimate decision, will be made by someone far better educated than myself, with the peoples future on our whole planet as the first priority.

Jamie that wont happen, it will be Politicians Matey.

[Pete.L]

I can only hope that the ultimate decision, will be made by someone far better educated than myself, with the peoples future on our whole planet as the first priority.

Jamie that wont happen, it will be Politicians Matey.

Ha! My thoughts exactly

[Big_Jim59]

I see that our president Obama decided to stick his nose in your business and declare that he supports the UK being part of the EU. Let me just that say that this is the guy that is all for open borders, free stuff for people that don't work and special privileges for everyone except of course those that pay taxes and have a job. Obama's track record in foreign policy is just miserable. I have no idea why the US government thinks it has the right to mess around in the affairs of another sovereign nation.

[StormingHonda]

I see that our president Obama decided to stick his nose in your business and declare that he supports the UK being part of the EU. Let me just that say that this is the guy that is all for open borders, free stuff for people that don't work and special privileges for everyone except of course those that pay taxes and have a job. Obama's track record in foreign policy is just miserable. I have no idea why the US government thinks it has the right to mess around in the affairs of another sovereign nation.

Because whilst the UK may have been a symbol of the industrial revolution, the US is the symbol for the birth of modern democratic-capitalism, where big businesses and the rich pull the strings via the politicians, the US has a track record like the UK for meddling in other countries affairs and pulling patriotism to motivate the general public to do its bidding, I do believe that society should look after the vulnerable and poor, both financially and medically when times are hard, but don't agree that people should live on the welfare state like its a career, I am a bit of a lefty like that, so I don't disagree with everything Obama says, but I am skeptical of his motivations in more than a few ways.

[simon t]

As someone who has retired to France it's pretty obvious that I'm for staying in.

On a purely selfish basis, it seems clear that if the UK leaves, the pound will go through the floor (it's already fallen 15% just on talk of leaving). As all my income is in pounds and outgoings in Euros I (and many other expats) would struggle to make ends meet.

If you think that doesn't affect you - wrong. If the pound buys less then imports cost more. In 2009 the pound and euro were in virtual parity and you ended up with 5% + inflation, despite being in the middle of a recession with wages stagnant. So coming out could cost you thousands just in inflation. Don't expect a cheap pound to boost exports - Britain just doesn't make stuff any more.

Regarding foreign investment, feel free to say tough sh*t to the people of Bristol when Airbus decide to make all their components in Toulouse, or to the people of Derby when Toyota's next model is made in France. And much as we hate The City, the relocation of thousand of financia services jobs to Frankfurt or Paris is gonna cost.

As for immigation, the idea of migrants as benefits scroungers is a myth. Migrants are a net contributor to the UK economy - unlike the Brits who are a net drain. Without the migrants the UK would be worse off. I don't buy the "taking our jobs spiel". Most are doing work that Brits, for whatever reason, are unwilling to do. In the event that they all had to go home there'd be a lot of Brit companies struggling or going under.

I just hope that people will vote on rational grounds, rather then the xenophobic hysteria whipped up by the out camp. All this talk of Brussels 'red tape', yet if you ask the outers to name some, they simply waffle. And now Boris Johnson has resorted to racism against Obama. God help us!

Here endeth the sermon - off for a glass of Cote de Rhone while I can still afford it.

ps Come on the Foxes AND the Tigers. A vintage year for Leicester sport (we hope).

[StormingHonda]

As someone who has retired to France it's pretty obvious that I'm for staying in.

On a purely selfish basis, it seems clear that if the UK leaves, the pound will go through the floor (it's already fallen 15% just on talk of leaving). As all my income is in pounds and outgoings in Euros I (and many other expats) would struggle to make ends meet.

If you think that doesn't affect you - wrong. If the pound buys less then imports cost more. In 2009 the pound and euro were in virtual parity and you ended up with 5% + inflation, despite being in the middle of a recession with wages stagnant. So coming out could cost you thousands just in inflation. Don't expect a cheap pound to boost exports - Britain just doesn't make stuff any more.

Regarding foreign investment, feel free to say tough sh*t to the people of Bristol when Airbus decide to make all their components in Toulouse, or to the people of Derby when Toyota's next model is made in France. And much as we hate The City, the relocation of thousand of financia services jobs to Frankfurt or Paris is gonna cost.

As for immigation, the idea of migrants as benefits scroungers is a myth. Migrants are a net contributor to the UK economy - unlike the Brits who are a net drain. Without the migrants the UK would be worse off. I don't buy the "taking our jobs spiel". Most are doing work that Brits, for whatever reason, are unwilling to do. In the event that they all had to go home there'd be a lot of Brit companies struggling or going under.

I just hope that people will vote on rational grounds, rather then the xenophobic hysteria whipped up by the out camp. All this talk of Brussels 'red tape', yet if you ask the outers to name some, they simply waffle. And now Boris Johnson has resorted to racism against Obama. God help us!

Here endeth the sermon - off for a glass of Cote de Rhone while I can still afford it.

ps Come on the Foxes AND the Tigers. A vintage year for Leicester sport (we hope).

First of all, I don't think you should be allowed to vote if you are a resident of France, and if you want to stay there you should apply for permanent residence, in fact any British person with permanent residence elsewhere shouldn't get to vote.

Secondly, business works both ways, do you not realise that?, I personally think it will make no difference to the likes of the working class.

Thirdly, who said people coming in from Europe are scroungers?, I don't think that, what I think is that our schools, hospitals, housing cannot cope with so many people coming into the country, so much so its effecting people here in a big way and making them angry, eastern European's have already driven down skilled craftsmen and brought the job's where working class people could earn a fair wage down.

People often argue that we have plenty of space to building housing, yeah sure lets rip up our country side to make room for more people then when a new town is built up the road sit there and wonder why we all got flooded this year, now all the trees have gone that soaked up the water.

[Wicky]

...what I think is that our schools, hospitals, housing cannot cope with so many people coming into the country, so much so its effecting people here in a big way and making them angry..."

Teacher crisis is forcing us to recruit abroad due to the shortage of qualified staff in the UK > http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/603182 ... -london-uk

officials plan to hire hundreds of foreign teachers in a desperate attempt to plug gaps in maths and physics departments

Hundreds of foreign nurses head for Yorkshire in NHS staff crisis > http://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/exc ... -1-7582692

nurse numbers have been cut in order to meet government demands to financially balance the books, whilst cuts in training places means that the UK is just not producing the nurses it needs.

[redpig]

I dont give a flying fook.

[StormingHonda]

...what I think is that our schools, hospitals, housing cannot cope with so many people coming into the country, so much so its effecting people here in a big way and making them angry..."

Teacher crisis is forcing us to recruit abroad due to the shortage of qualified staff in the UK > http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/603182 ... -london-uk

officials plan to hire hundreds of foreign teachers in a desperate attempt to plug gaps in maths and physics departments

Hundreds of foreign nurses head for Yorkshire in NHS staff crisis > http://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/exc ... -1-7582692

nurse numbers have been cut in order to meet government demands to financially balance the books, whilst cuts in training places means that the UK is just not producing the nurses it needs.

Kind of proves my point. its not a lack of teachers in the respect that they needed them before it just now they cannot cope with the amount of pupils, I know this because I have children of school age.

Secondly, the NHS, this is more to do with a home goal by the government, lack of training offered to HCA staff to climb up the ladder to nursing, and working and pay conditions are dire in the NHS anyway, and have been for years. I know this because my wife used to work in the NHS, before we had children.

[Wicky]

...what I think is that our schools, hospitals, housing cannot cope with so many people coming into the country, so much so its effecting people here in a big way and making them angry..."

Teacher crisis is forcing us to recruit abroad due to the shortage of qualified staff in the UK > http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/603182 ... -london-uk

officials plan to hire hundreds of foreign teachers in a desperate attempt to plug gaps in maths and physics departments

Hundreds of foreign nurses head for Yorkshire in NHS staff crisis > http://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/exc ... -1-7582692

nurse numbers have been cut in order to meet government demands to financially balance the books, whilst cuts in training places means that the UK is just not producing the nurses it needs.

Kind of proves my point. its not a lack of teachers in the respect that they needed them before it just now they cannot cope with the amount of pupils, I know this because I have children of school age.

Secondly, the NHS, this is more to do with a home goal by the government, lack of training offered to HCA staff to climb up the ladder to nursing, and working and pay conditions are dire in the NHS anyway, and have been for years. I know this because my wife used to work in the NHS, before we had children.

Next parents evening ask the teachers at the coalface if they think that immigration is causing a shortage of certain qualified teachers.

Agree with you that govt (past & present) is the major cause of NHS woes rather than immigration and hospitals just about float because of foreign staff doing the jobs that no one else wants to do wether as docs, nursing or ancillary. For HCAs at my local hospital a fews back they offered them NVQ training to get a grade rise and a payrise on qualifiying but after they did that management did a U-turn and did away with with the pay rise so there was little incentive to further themselves despite their role having greater demands as they were asked more and more to do tasks usually assigned to qualified staff, as the nursing staff do more jobs that were usually the province of doctors etc. A bit like the increasing role of unqualified teachers in the classroom and PCSOs filling cracks in visible policing. But even saying that there is a route from HCA to qualifying as a nurse if you work for a certain period of time and show the aptidute & commitment then staff can train for 3 years on full HCA pay for their diploma (and top it up later on part time to degree level).

Again if folk feel so strongly about immigrants supposedly undermining the NHS they have the right not to consent to be cared for or fed by them etc. just let the nurses know that you would like only a British passport holding members of staff to be in attendance or fetch their commodes/wipe their bottoms - though funnily enough not many opt to discriminate when it comes down to it...

[StormingHonda]

Coalface?

Immigration is impacting schools because of the amount of children that come with their parents, which means more children per class, which in turn leads to more classrooms being built, in fact I have known some schools to have portable cabins to take up the slack whilst the school has an extension built, one school where I lived had such an influx of pupils ( yes immigrants ) that they had to build an entire new school on the field then knock down the old one which was far to small to be worth keeping.

More immigration = more pupils = more class rooms needed = more teachers being needed.

I said nothing about foreign teachers undermining current teachers, but I have first hand experience and first hand experience of trying to get my kids into local schools.

My comment isn't a dig at people wanting to come to the country but merely pointing out that its not feasible to expand a population by any means on many different levels. which is happening at such an alarming rate, maybe not so much in your neck of the woods Wicky but in mine.

Personally I would welcome more teachers, medical staff, in fact I would love more immigrants from the middle upper class jobs level to come in and give them a taste of mass immigration.

[Wicky]

Someone who is at the coalface is doing the work involved in a job, not talking about it. http://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/at+the+coalface

I'll reply fully later...