Help, I'm stuck - manual CCT fitting problem

[freeridenick]

So I've replaced the rear CCT without a problem. All the marks lined up, the lobes point in the right direction, easy peasy.

On to the front cylinder and all is not well. What I know:
1. The front CCT went and damaged the valves.
2. The guy I bought the bike off (a good friend) replaced the head and set everything up.
3. I'm pretty sure the rear cylinder is how it came from the factory so after 1 1/4 turns anticlockwise the FT mark lines up and the front cams are pointing in and a bit down, the FI and FE marks are pointing inwards.
4. I double check and find the same so figure I'll swap the CCT anyway and adjust the cams when the chain's loose.
5. The chain is still tight with the CCT removed.

Questions:
1. The chain is tight because there's still some valve spring pressure acting on the cams. Am I right?
2. How do I get the cams in the right position?
3. Since I can turn the engine over without feeling anything hitting anything else I'm assuming my mate has set the cams up at TDC on the wrong stroke. Would that fit with a tight chain and the cam position I've got?

Thanks

[tony.mon]

Start from the rear cylinder, with cams pointing upwards and towards each other at about a 45 degree angle, with the lines on the cam sprockets lined up with the top of the head.
Now rotate the engine one and a quarter turns AT THE CRANK until the FT mark lines up in the alt cover window.
If the front set of cams aren't lined up correctly you will need to undo the tensioner, half a turn at a time on each bolt, until the tensioner is out.
Then remove the cam caps, and remove the cams.
Then re-install them until the lines on the cam sprockets line up with the heads, with the slack pulled tight on the front run.
Once the cams are in the right position, you can install the manual CCT.

[tony.mon]

Start from the rear cylinder, with cams pointing upwards and towards each other at about a 45 degree angle, with the lines on the cam sprockets lined up with the top of the head.
Now rotate the engine one and a quarter turns AT THE CRANK until the FT mark lines up in the alt cover window.
If the front set of cams aren't lined up correctly you will need to undo the tensioner, half a turn at a time on each bolt, until the tensioner is out.
Then remove the cam caps, and remove the cams.
Then re-install them until the lines on the cam sprockets line up with the heads, with the slack pulled tight on the front run.
Once the cams are in the right position, you can install the manual CCT.

[freeridenick]

Cheers Tony.Mon, but that's where I'm up to.

I took the old CCT off and the chain was still tight. Will I be able to take the cam caps off with a tight chain or do I need to take the cam gears off first?

[tony.mon]

Cheers Tony.Mon, but that's where I'm up to.

I took the old CCT off and the chain was still tight. Will I be able to take the cam caps off with a tight chain or do I need to take the cam gears off first?

As I said, undo the tensioner, half a turn on each mounting bolt at a time, and remove the tensioner.
Then retime.

[sirch345]

I would have thought the cam chain should only be tight once the CCT has been removed if the valves are still open Even then I would have thought the cam chain would have jumped the cam sprockets with the CCT removed if that was the case.

Can you show us a photo of the cam lobe positions as they are now with the CCT removed

Chris.

[freeridenick]

I think the chain guide the tensioner acts on was stuck. The chain didn't slacken when I took the old CCT out so I fitted the manual one, tightened it the slowly loosened it while pushing the chain back against it.

The chain jumped once but no more and was still tight even with the CCT off. I'll take a pic and post it tonight. They're not quite180 degrees out from memory - pointing inwards and the flat part is about horizontal.

[freeridenick]

Photo of the can lobes as they are after 1 1/4 anticlockwise turns from the rear cylinder being at TDC
https://www.dropbox.com/s/lmf21gsa6nsqu ... .52.48.jpg

Photo of the gears
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ge1bca9unhsul ... .53.08.jpg

[AMCQ46]

Cams not in correct position and as they are starting to open the valves that is why the chain is tight.

Take off CCT and move the cams to correct position.... You may need to take one off to get enough chain slack

[sirch345]

Lets just make this clear, the photo's are from the front cylinder

If so IMHO the cam lobes are facing the wrong way and at the wrong angle. The FI and FE marks on the cam sprockets should be level with the top of the cylinder head (or there abouts, that will depend on mileage and cam chain stretch) facing away from each other, they look like they are facing towards each other in the photo.

Take a look at Cybercarls link below, scroll down and have a look at his photo's for the front cylinder:-
http://www.vtr1000.org/phpBB3/viewtopic ... 31&t=28583

Chris.

[sirch345]

Cams not in correct position and as they are starting to open the valves that is why the chain is tight.

That was my first thoughts Al,

Chris.

[freeridenick]

All sorted.

Thanks for all the help.

[sirch345]

All sorted.

Thanks for all the help.

Glad to hear it's all sorted, did the cam chain become slack once the cams were in the right place before the CCT was fitted

Chris.

[freeridenick]

Yes it did. I knew the cams were in the wrong position, but wasn't sure how to solve the problem - a bit scared of breaking something.

Great advice from Tony.Mon and everyone else, although I ended up just removing one of the gears rather than taking the cam caps off. With the cams in the right place there was plenty of slack to allow me to get the FE and FI marks in the right place. The FE mark looks about half a tooth out, but the cams look fine.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/5636452f3md1x ... .40.19.jpg
https://www.dropbox.com/s/qtgcc0qe0nvh7 ... .40.27.jpg
https://www.dropbox.com/s/x1ydtq8nnh1ma ... .40.45.jpg

Thanks again.

[darkember]

You will find that the markings on the sprockets will be a shade off just play about to find which side of the engine casing they line up closest too.