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very sad to see this video on youtube.
once again a reason why i'm glad the majority of our police don't carry guns.
chances are this shooting will raise race issue's, but I don't see this as anything to do with race, purely shockingly bad policing.
they couldn't handle a single homeless person with mental health issues....
plus something like 3 to 5 shots were fired....
the police are saying that whilst the victim was involved in a struggle with officers, the victim made an attempt to grab an officers gun, that's when they open fired.
if anyone wishes to see this video the link is below, I will say that although a man is shot and killed, it's not a graphic/gory video, there is lots of bad language tho.

Can't really tell the situation, but one thing is that the amount of shots has to be overkill. At least if they all hit their target.

I don't know what it is with American police, but they really just don't have a good reputation.

There were no racial overtones, just police being extremely bad at their job, lets hope someone gets time for it.

That looked more like an execution than an attempt at arrest
Three guys kneeling on a man and they still have to shoot him?

I am going to play devils advocate here. I recognize that to the outside world our police seem reactionary and quick to shoot and in some cases they are but they, like anyone else, want to go home alive at night. A guy with a knife can kill you just a quickly as a guy with a gun. Add to that the fact that there are lots of guns around, gangs, thugs and hot heads armed and you get the picture. Police have to make split second calls, in poor circumstances all while hopped up on Adrenalin. I found the following article interesting.

http://www.policeone.com/police-product ... -training/

Oh. . .as to the number of shots fired, police are trained to empty the clip. If you have to fire that means you are using deadly force. Shooting the gun out of their hand only works in cowboy movies.

My dad always told me to be very careful of cops. He said "they carry the power of life and death granted to them by the state. They are still human and subject to the same forces that effect us all. A cop with a gun, having a bad day can be a dangerous person." He told me to always be very careful and respectful when dealing with the police.

Big_Jim59 wrote:I am going to play devils advocate here. I recognize that to the outside world our police seem reactionary and quick to shoot and in some cases they are but they, like anyone else, want to go home alive at night. A guy with a knife can kill you just a quickly as a guy with a gun. Add to that the fact that there are lots of guns around, gangs, thugs and hot heads armed and you get the picture. Police have to make split second calls, in poor circumstances all while hopped up on Adrenalin. I found the following article interesting.

http://www.policeone.com/police-product ... -training/

Oh. . .as to the number of shots fired, police are trained to empty the clip. If you have to fire that means you are using deadly force. Shooting the gun out of their hand only works in cowboy movies.

My dad always told me to be very careful of cops. He said "they carry the power of life and death granted to them by the state. They are still human and subject to the same forces that effect us all. A cop with a gun, having a bad day can be a dangerous person." He told me to always be very careful and respectful when dealing with the police.

good post Jim..not taking sides either way but that was good reading.your Dad was rite

Great write up Jim, Dealing with people with guns is very dangerous, i have been shot in the leg, not my fault but the situations. He paid the ultimate price and i have had many recounts of events. In the USA guns are common place and if i was a cop i would have probably done the same.
If that happened in the UK it would have been a different story i think. We don't know what happened fully but it does look really bad.

they certainly don't look particularly brave

all comes back to the fact that you never know what sort of plonker has got hold of a gun .

the police are probably sh1tting themselves the whole time leading to this sort of behaviour . what a shame.

It is a false assumption that that the police are brave. It is a job and at times a nasty, brutal, dirty job. They want to go home at night after their shift. No one wants to die especially at the hands of some drugged up punk.

There is a lot of talk here about limiting access to guns. It's complicated because gun ownership is basic civil right built into our Constitution. The founders knew full well what an armed government could do against an unarmed population. If you limit the law abiding citizens access to weapons then the people who don't obey the law will be the only ones that have guns. Plus, I am not wild about the cops being the only ones armed. As a buddy of mine stated, "the police are just another gang, a well armed and tax payer funded gang." Yes they have judicial oversight but they at times, act outside their authority. (We have a president that's doing that now.)

It's not just the cops. We have a case in Louisiana that hit the news. This guy was accused of assault, there were witnesses and a prosecutor pressed charges. The trouble? It was all a lie.

http://www.opposingviews.com/i/society/ ... ves-claims

We live in a corrupt world where even the good can fall. I was thinking of the quote from Shakespeare’s Henry V where a soldier confronts the king with a moral question. If the King's cause is not just, “few die well that die in a battle” and that “a heavy reckoning” awaits the king that led them to it. Henry says "Besides, there is no king, be his cause never so spotless, if it come to the arbitrement of swords, can try it out with all unspotted soldiers." I think of this line when others complain about the police. The police are all as flawed as the people they are tasked to protect. If only we could have unspotted police.

Wait a little bit until you get a chance to see the security cam footage that show a bit more of what happened that day.
I looked but haven't found it yet but it is on our local news (As I live in LA)

Starts out with the fine young man selling drugs from his tent, then attacking the guy in the tent next to him.
The cops show up and start talking with the gentleman, who then dives into his tent and then comes back out and attacks the 3 officers.

Personally I would have shot the crazy b8stard in the face right then and there but these guys try to get him under control (crazy homeless guy remember) and while trying to taze him, the guy goes for one officers gun.
On the blow ups from the first video posted, it does look like the gentleman's hand is on the officers weapon.

You can then hear "He has my gun" repeated 4-5 times, Then the officers discharged their weapons. 3 officers 5 shots so no "firing squad" In fact from my combat shooting days, that is one round short but that is another topic.

So yes I am in the camp of what else do you what from these guys? Sure there are bad officers and all that but hell they were being respectful and non aggressive.
The guy flipped and attacked, they did what they could to do a non-lethal take down until the guy tried to get one of their weapons,
Then instead of just opening fire you get 5 "He's got my gun" which to any sane person would mean if you are the person close to the cop, life is going to get painful real quick if you don't stop whatever you are doing.

The fact the guy ignored it would tell me, as a cop, that the guy you had a good idea was crazy, is bad sh1t nuts and about to kill your partner.
So is it time to put the guy down yet?

Like I said, I don't think I could have lasted as long as these guys did and believe they did all they could in the situation they were placed in.

Just wish the vid was out but give it a day or so and I'll find it

Big_Jim59 wrote:I am going to play devils advocate here. I recognize that to the outside world our police seem reactionary and quick to shoot and in some cases they are but they, like anyone else, want to go home alive at night. A guy with a knife can kill you just a quickly as a guy with a gun. Add to that the fact that there are lots of guns around, gangs, thugs and hot heads armed and you get the picture. Police have to make split second calls, in poor circumstances all while hopped up on Adrenalin. I found the following article interesting.

http://www.policeone.com/police-product ... -training/

Oh. . .as to the number of shots fired, police are trained to empty the clip. If you have to fire that means you are using deadly force. Shooting the gun out of their hand only works in cowboy movies.

My dad always told me to be very careful of cops. He said "they carry the power of life and death granted to them by the state. They are still human and subject to the same forces that effect us all. A cop with a gun, having a bad day can be a dangerous person." He told me to always be very careful and respectful when dealing with the police.

Great post Jim

8541Hawk wrote:Wait a little bit until you get a chance to see the security cam footage that show a bit more of what happened that day.
I looked but haven't found it yet but it is on our local news (As I live in LA)

Starts out with the fine young man selling drugs from his tent, then attacking the guy in the tent next to him.
The cops show up and start talking with the gentleman, who then dives into his tent and then comes back out and attacks the 3 officers.

Personally I would have shot the crazy b8stard in the face right then and there but these guys try to get him under control (crazy homeless guy remember) and while trying to taze him, the guy goes for one officers gun.
On the blow ups from the first video posted, it does look like the gentleman's hand is on the officers weapon.

You can then hear "He has my gun" repeated 4-5 times, Then the officers discharged their weapons. 3 officers 5 shots so no "firing squad" In fact from my combat shooting days, that is one round short but that is another topic.

So yes I am in the camp of what else do you what from these guys? Sure there are bad officers and all that but hell they were being respectful and non aggressive.
The guy flipped and attacked, they did what they could to do a non-lethal take down until the guy tried to get one of their weapons,
Then instead of just opening fire you get 5 "He's got my gun" which to any sane person would mean if you are the person close to the cop, life is going to get painful real quick if you don't stop whatever you are doing.

The fact the guy ignored it would tell me, as a cop, that the guy you had a good idea was crazy, is bad sh1t nuts and about to kill your partner.
So is it time to put the guy down yet?

Like I said, I don't think I could have lasted as long as these guys did and believe they did all they could in the situation they were placed in.

Just wish the vid was out but give it a day or so and I'll find it

This adds alot to the story and definitely changes my view, thanks for the clarification.

"This adds alot to the story and definitely changes my view, thanks for the clarification.[/quote]


OIC . I did,nt realise he actually dis-armed the copper.

Always remember that the media's job is to attract attention to the story. They do their best to generate controversy. There have been cases of stories and quotes being edited or omitted to make situations sound worse then it are. It's not that the story's not true. It just not complete. I am getting sick of the media and trust very little I see or hear.

Some very wise words from your Father there Jim. Loved the Shakespeare what great analogy.

When I was doing a graphic design course at college we got told a story how back during the American civil war a reporter dragged a dead man out of the trench and onto the open field, sat down next to him and drew the picture on his easel for the Washington Post. The story went out as if that was where he died as It looked more glamorous and showed the dead man as being braver. So images have been manipulated way before the advent of computers and it's the same for words.

The thing is the press can be so convincing at times that people, including myself at times, can be sucked in to believe it and have the wool pulled over their eyes. It's like marketing really. We could buy a product and next we realise that we didn't actually need it and have only bought it because we where sucked in by the marketing of that product. One don't realise it at the time though without foresight. A bit like politics really

(:-})