timing

[scottyhatchi]

I'm having a lot of problems with my bike like taking so long to fire up it drains the battery dead then I can't start it etc .
I've had apart and done timing myself but think I've done it wrong or correctly and made it jump again with the manual ccts but my confusion is the book haynes tell to check start engine idle till warm shut off engine remove the inspection cap and the mark F shud be lined up with static mark on case yet it never is so seems that is if I'm checking correct then that explains why I'm having such effort getting started all time but I dunno what I'm supposed to do I don't have a timing light to do what book tells to do . Any advice please anyone done the timing on their bike before ? As bike isn't running very good so I'm doing something wrong

[VTRDark]

Scotty, Scotty, Scotty what are we going to do with you.

First off don't run the bike if you suspect the timing is out. Second don't use the Haynes manual as it has errors in it. I'm not entirely sure what the errors are but it's wrong. I'm hoping you just have it 180 degrees out.

You going to have to remove both cam covers and check everything over thoroughly and start again. Start with the rear cylinder then move onto the front.

Have a read of the instructions here and see if that makes sense to you.
http://www.vtr1000.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=8326

If you don't understand anything then post back here with your questions. Then as you do the work post pics up so we can confirm if it's OK to move to the next step.

Did you get your cooling system problem sorted then. Was the bike running OK back then. Have you only recently done the cct's then.

(:-})

[sirch345]

http://www.vtr1000.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=8326

Scotty, Follow the link Carl posted for the valve timing, don't go by the Haynes workshop manual.
You don't need a timing light either for setting the valve timing.

It could be a number of things causing the starting difficulties you're experiencing. If you check the valve timing first that sounds like a good place to start seeing as you think that could be out.

Chris.

[scottyhatchi]

That thread was for the ccts alough it does have in it about what marks to line up and that is the same as the haynes manual and exactly what I did only thing I didn't do was remove spark plugs as don't have tool to get them out but didn't think this wud matter in timing as taking them out only makes easier to turm crank thing to the marks ft and rt . But manual says to check timing run engine shut off check inspection cap and shud be at the mark F but its not and f is the firing position so wudda thought thois was the reason I'm draining my battery all time with it taking so long to fire up and start

[tony.mon]

But the engine will stop in any random position, so you can't run it, turn it off and then have a look to see if the F marks are lined up?

[scottyhatchi]

I'm confused it says run it then turn it off then check it its at f mark . U say turn it off then check at f mark lol that's what I doing unless u meanmt something else and I've incorrectly read ur message mate ? Sorry all confusing to me

[VTRDark]

RT and FT are the only marks you should be concerned about. Remove the rear cam cover and turn the crank anti=clockwise until the scribed line on the case lines up with RT. Check to see if the rear cams are pointing upwards and inwards towards each other. If not keep turning the crank anti-clockwise until the RT comes back around and check the cam again. This time they should be pointing upwards and inwards. While you at this stage double check the marks on the cam sprockets line up with the base of the head. You may also want to double check your tension on the cam chain from where you installed it and make sure your happy with it.

OK you have finished with the rear now so time to move to the front. This is where I suspect you have gone wrong. Turn the crank from the RT mark anti-clockiwise and you will see the FT mark come around. Ignore it this time around and keep turning until it comes around again for the second time. The front cams should be pointing upwards and outwards. Now you can't see this, so I suggest you remove the front cam cover and double check this and also check the marks on the cam sprockets here also. Same again with the tension on the chain.

Post some pics of the sprockets so we can verify if they are OK.

(:-})

[VTRDark]

Whatever you do scotty don't run the engine until your sure everything is correct

Is there an F mark on there, I can't remember. But anyway don't get confused with F and FT as they are separate things. FT for front TDC and RT for rear TDC are the only marks you should be concerned with.

(:-})

[scottyhatchi]

This is what I done alough I did ft mark first then turned to rt then to rt again and did the marks for that does it make a diffrence if I do front head then rear rather than rear then front as u explained to do ? Also yes I know the f mark is for summin diffrent its the firing mark this is what I am trying to explain the firing mark f is never there in place ready to fire bike up I turn bike off check and no f mark in inspection cap so summin must be wrong

[steeveeo]

HI Scotty

I followed the link on here when replacing my CCT,s
worked perfect

I did notice a bit o care need when turning the motor through 450 degrees to line up the FT mark .

there is an F mark on the flywheel which can easily be mistaken for the mark ,due to the viewing hole being small ,plenty bright light needed to see the FT mark.

get the plugs out ,its much easier ,

i have a plug spanner if you want ya plugs out;

cheers steve .sunderland

[scottyhatchi]

Hi steve yea I know to be sure not to get f and ft mixed up I know they are diffrent uses but I keep stating that book says f shud be lined with static mark when engine switched off as it shows its in firing position butwhen I check its never lined up but everyone keeps telling me not to mistake ft with f mark I thinlk everyones getting confused about what I'm saying about the f mark .
As for spark plug tool I really appreciate it mate but all I have is my bike for transport lol so dnt really have anyt way of getting to sunderland lol gonna strip bike again in the morning try again see if the ccts wrongly adjusted have sent it out of timing again I know removing plugs makes it easier to turn but does leaving them in cause any problems to timing ?

[VTRDark]

This is what I done alough I did ft mark first then turned to rt then to rt again and did the marks for that does it make a difference

TBH I'm not sure if your not removing the cam covers to check the cm positions. If you have the covers removed it does not matter because you can verify that it's set right by the position of the cams.

Also yes I know the f mark is for summin diffrent its the firing mark this is what I am trying to explain the firing mark f is never there in place ready to fire bike up I turn bike off check and no f mark in inspection cap so summin must be wrong

Ignore the F mark it's not relevant. Whatever the Haynes manual is saying about it is unnecessarily confusing things. It's wrong, ignore it. If you follow the Haynes you will more than likely wombles it up.
http://www.vtr1000.org/phpBB3/viewtopic ... 16&t=25221

And why would do you need the F to fire it up it don't make sense the bike will fire from anywhere as long as you have your timing correct. Maybe this is why the Haynes mentions something about a timing light, maybe this is what you see flashing in the strobe. But then what WTF are you supposed to adjust to line up the F (if that's what Haynes is implying) with a timing light. It's not like the bike has a way of manually advancing and retarding the ignition.

Ignore the Haynes, listen to us and you wont go wrong.

Start with the rear cylinder and check that everything is correct there.





(:-})

[scottyhatchi]

Yea its the f mark that's really confused me like haha rite gonna pull it apart again tmoz and check it all again I probs set timing but did ccts wrong causing timing to just go out again maybe I'm really no good with these ccts people say put them in slakken till hear chain clakker then tighten till clakker goes away then anotha quarter turn but my bike so bloody loud I don't hear the chain clakker easy lol but mind u wen I did timing befor I did it put all bak tgther started engine loosened ccts rite off then gradually tightened them up so I'm defo thinking it jumped the timing again really hate these manual ccts like lol

[VTRDark]

Have a look at my recent post here regarding getting the tension on the CCT
http://www.vtr1000.org/phpBB3/viewtopic ... 14#p248273

Don't do them with the engine running to begin with, something will go wrong.

I did timing befor I did it put all bak tgther started engine loosened ccts rite off then gradually tightened them up

FFS don't loosen them right off or the chain will jump, you got to go real easy if adjusting them with the engine running. And this is no good for initially setting them. This is only any use afterwards or if they need a slight adjustment after putting some mileage on the bike.

(:-})

[agentpineapple]

good luck with it scotty, let us know how you got on.....