Hi guys,
been reading through threads with similar issues as i have,so hopefully i/we can nail this problem.(screen now goes wavy as we transmoglyfly back in time).
OK here we go ,are we sitting comfortably......right,
Front cylinder tensioner went,no suprise there,about 3 years ago got it all sorted then fekked & fiddled cause of a tap i was getting & it went again,not going into detail ...bit embarrasing ahem!!!
Aaaanyway got it back on the road start of this year with a few runs out but had this dropping a cylinder issue,now thinking it had been standing for a while thought maybe give it the benifit of the doubt & run it for a while,it might clear something.......nah.
She'd rev to about 8k & it would feel like it hit a limiter,there was just no more.Balanced the carbs,running from cold was transformed & the top end fault moved from 8k with no more ,to good upto 7k then from 7k to 9ish flat then from 9ish to red line ok.
I've read the 180 degrees out bits which have obviously sorted some out,but i can't get my head round what's 180 out.Surly that far out & you'd be back to putting valves in?
At the mo carbs are stripped with a blowjob pending tomorrow,checked out the good old haynes but nothing about fuel?air mixture screws,where the fek are they.
Sorry to go on.
Cheers Wicky,
i think i'm gonna stick with the carb theory first off,
as far as teeth jumping its possible,to be honest i've been there that much now,it's had every thing right down to new chains front & rear,until it's sorted i'm really cheesed off with it,its just gobbling money with no fun factor in return,
It's a red she by the way.
Bluefox wrote:
I've read the 180 degrees out bits which have obviously sorted some out,but i can't get my head round what's 180 out.Surly that far out & you'd be back to putting valves in?
I'll try to explain what is meant by the valve timing being 180 degrees out.
It has nothing to do with the valve timing not being right for the front or rear cylinder as individual cylinders.
However the Firestorm engine is not two individual cylinders working on their own, the front and rear have to be timed with each other so that they work together. This is where the '180 degrees out' can happen.
I don't know how much mechanical knowledge you have of working on V twins, but on the Firestorm if the front CCT (cam chain tensioner) lets go and you need to totally reset the valve timing for that cylinder, it's not just a matter of getting the piston on TDC then lining up the timing marks on the crank and cam shaft sprockets then refitting the cam chain. You need to set up the rear cylinder first using the timing marks, it must also be on the compression stroke, SEE NOTE BELOW! Once you've done that, you then need to turn the engine over ANTI-CLOCKWISE 450 degrees (one and a quarter turns) until the 'FT' mark lines up with the mark on the alternator cover. At this point the front and rear cylinders are timed correctly, they are not 180 degrees out.
NOTE
If you are going to check this, which I also think is a good idea, have a look this link, as you'll need to follow the correct positioning for the cam lobes when setting up the cam timing, they must be facing the right way. http://www.vtr1000.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=8326
Bluefox, quite a saga you have there and indeed I share the same symptoms with you with the exception that mine splutters at two/three k. Without much ado, here's another saga. And as with the majority, there's no bail out from The Fed/Mr Darling & Co so here I am cap in hand for ideas, so to speak.
OK, following my quick (and long) 'Hello', I managed to tear into the bike and successfully reset and installed the front CCT - btw BOTH cam covers off, checked lobe positions/timing marks, turn the crank over by hand several times and double checking all again before firing up. Along with replacing the spark plugs, the air filter, oil/filter, exhaust gaskets and the like - I had the front head off to check for valve damage (none, compression good) and a good clean prior to tearing in, the serviceable parts were, well, serviced.
I gave it a crank and bingo! First time. It ran sweet for about 20 seconds then sounded like it was running out of juice/firing on one pot. Throttling (gently) offered more 'cough and splutter. Yep, I checked the hoses under the tank (what a rubbish tap, I might add; inaccessible, lacking a tap handle, an all-round nuisance) just in case I fell foul of the 'wrong hoses' thing.
Puzzled, I noticed one thing - the rear pot pipe was hotter than the front (tap-touchable on the front, roasting on the rear). I check the resistances on the HT Coils (with and without caps) and check connections - all nominal/clean/good. Oddly, the new front pot spark plug showed no signs of being in a 'furnace' and the spark that was offered wasn't a bright blue, rather a faint yellow.
Now I recall turning the bike over with the cap/plug off (while the old plug was in temporarily but without grounding the plug cap itself (I understand this MAY cause damage to the ICU, although a couple of pals - a Honda mechanic with a VTR and a VTR racer noted how robust these units were) - so I'm wondering.
I didn't disturb the carbs on removal or drop anything in and/or generally unsettle them (and they/it went into a plastic bag, upright) but I shall consider taking them apart as a last resort I'm assuming that all was fine beforehand so I see no reason to doubt that they are still OK (at the moment).
I'll check the posts for replacement ICU's (it's the last thing to check/replace) although I understand that a few boxes from the R6/1 fit, correct?
Now I'm off out to check resistances on the HT Coils (again/swop them over), the Pulse Gen, the Throttle Pos Sensor and whack some carb cleaner in. If all fails, it's going over to Honda! In the mean time, if any bright sparks out there have experienced this or can shed light on what else to look for (even by process of elimination), be my guest.
Thanks for reading and best regards all
Bob
PS. I've been playing with Flash to recreate the timing of the VTR from the specification (and checking from observational drawings of various positions) so I could SEE how it the Vee Twin works - it's possible to code such things with the spec. I have a working example and once I've coded in some additional scenarios (such as what happens when things go wrong inside - i.e. the CCT's), and I'm on the road again, I'll offer it up to accompany Sirch's explanation of the CCT/timing.
Hi Bob
Belated Welcome Aboard
Is it possible to swap the coils over? I've had coils brake down in the past (Not on a Storm) and a meter doesn't always show it. It still could be the ECU but as these things don't have separate condensors it might get you one step closer to finding the cause.
Pete.l
My new ride is a bit of a Howler and I love to make her Squeal
The HT Coils can be swapped over, the front and rear ones interchanged - rationale: that if one is defective, it should repeat the problem on the plug/pot onto which the lead is connected. Agreed that sometimes the coil resistances are no indicator of failure (the VT500 was good at that wee trick).
I suspect/fear the ICU (the ECU) might be faulty following my wee error in sparking without a ground connection. Has anyone here made this mistake? I have no idea how the ICU acts on a partial failure (I'll browse the boards) so I'm unsure - how I'd love to have a circuit diagram for the unit. I tried a timing strobe too (powered by a spare car battery so as not to get erroneous readings from the bike's circuitry), but oil splatters out of the inspection hole making that awkward to say the least (cheers Haynes).
cupasoop wrote:Faulty plug? I know you've put new ones in but a new one could be faulty.
I've come across that before too
Twinpotter wrote:
I'll check the posts for replacement ICU's (it's the last thing to check/replace) although I understand that a few boxes from the R6/1 fit, correct?
As far as I know it's only the rectifier that gets fitted from the R1/R6.
It's the earlier Firestorms that can have rectifier problems because the rectifier was produced without cooling fins, unlike the later models.
Whilst i still haven't attacked the problem yet,need to gather my thought's & enthusiasm,i have to thank you Sir Sirch345,you really shed the light on that one mate,like i said haven't done it yet but i'm very confident you nailed it mate.
Just to clarify one thing after youv'e set up rear cylinder,is it the same principle for the position for the lobes (facing inwards) for the front cylinder.
And if your right mate,look out for the next meet........your in for a big man hug it's ok your safe i'm married with kids, .
Cheers Gwyn
back in time).
ahem!!!
Welcome Aboard 
