Camchain tensioner failure!!!

[stormy 1]

my firestorm's done 7400m and when starting it up last week there was a noise rather like a ball bearing flying around in a saucepan. I stopped the bike and restarted it and the noise had gone. When I got to the local dealers I was told that nothing goes wrong with the V twin, but on insisting that something was very wrong they got the mechanic out who immediately said " that's the cam chain tensioner mate,quite common is that, I've got one in stock and I can do it today"........makes you wonder how common it is don't it !!

HI MATE
CAN YOU TELL ME THE COST OF THE REPLACEMENT,TA VERY MUCH
STORMY

[SILVTR]

The last post I can find on this subject was July 03, but here's good ol' me to open it again... Apologies to those of you that have moved on, but I need to know stuff...

Del - did you ever fit the APE replacements? Were they £34 each or was that for the pair?

Del/All - If I understand it right, the OE CCTs are spring loaded, in thoery constantly and automatically placing just the right amount of pressure on the cam chains as they wear to stop them flapping about too much. Is that right? The problem is what? Grooves or burrs or lips from mfg process on the tensioner shaft (or whatever) stop the tensioner moving inwards, despite the spring pressure?

I understand that you have to manually turn the APE tensioners inwards to maintain pressure. How do you know when to turn them in? When the rattle starts? Every XXX miles? How much do you turn them in?

I've been hoping that this problem would miss my bike, but at 23300 miles, I have been keeping my ear open for the noise, and I think it's started (most noticably at lowish revs, slowing down on a trailing throttle, 2nd gear).

I called the dealer I bought my bike from, and he said they did check for any CCT issues when they did the pre-MOT/pre-sale 20,000 mile service, as they were aware that the CCTs can be problematic. They were fine then, but 3300 miles later, he says of course they could be starting to give trouble.

He said to try a VERY VERY GENTLE tap with a light tool to maybe free the tensioner to let the spring pressure it into the chain. He said the biggest probs are when you ignore the rattle till it's too late, and that once you address any noise, you should easily see 40,000 - 50,000 before any attention is needed at all with the CCT or the cam chain itself.

Any response to this would be very welcome - I'll buy the APE items if necessary, but first (and depending on comments from you guys) I might try to tap the tensioner(s) in.

Have a good weekend all.

[RQ]

Mark, don't bother with stock CCT's as I put a new front one in 5,000 miles ago, and the tapping on slowdown is starting again.

Correct on the function of the tensioner, it starts with a slight tap because the spring was slowly failing, and not able to put enough pressure on the blade. It eventually goes pop when the spring snaps and all hell breaks loose in your motor.

I have 22,000 miles on mine, and going for a second front tensioner.

What dealer did you get yours from?

[delmeekc]

Uuum, exported the APE tensioners to a fellow stormer, I have a set of modified ones on test in a VTR at the moment, done 1000 miles and now going for and additional 2k then I'll check them again. The problem is that the tensioner has no rachet mechanism and is always moving and the spring is like a clock spring, rotary instead of a compression type. Also when the bike is revved above 7000 rpm the tensioner gets really tight and when left on tickover for a few minutes it gets v-loose. The constant movement seems to weaken the spring and then it snaps, then when a fair bit of load is applied it will fully retract + bang!. The modified ones allow the automatic tensioning to be done and then they can be locked off so the spring is no longer moving, the spring pressure is still there if the locking was to come loose. This mod works ok for me and will see if the test bike goes bang, hope not.

I'm not sure whether a tap will do shite, sounds abit wierd, maybe you should just kick the tyre. would be better to spend a little time and check it out properly or if in doubt change them, i think the pair with gaskets are about £100. The rear is a doddle but for the front the tank and airbox have to come off but that's really it. Obviously the timing holes too and sparks plugs.

I never got around to fitting the APE ones, sorry.

Del.

[SILVTR]

Warwick's in Heywood, Manchester. Is it just the front that gives jip? Just spoke on the phone to a private mechanic in Dublin I've used & trusted for years - he said the tap might do it, and that CBR600s are prone to it too, and that the tap usually works with them. He'd be reluctant to fit anything non-standard, but he's always like that about anything aftermarket - cans, filters, any spares, etc.

[SILVTR]

So it's the spring that goes? Does that make its way into the engine internals as soon as it breaks, or is it part of a semi-external mechanism? What would Honda do if the spring did break? Replace the spring again & again & again? This is a shame, cos I really love my FireStorm, and it's stuff like this that sours you towards a bike - the fuel pump and clutch slave cylinder on my FJ12, the rectifier on my GSX750...

[delmeekc]

nah it's inside the cct well hidden. I think honda would do the job if it was a new bike I guess, I think people that have had them go had to pay either the parts or labour, not sure. The problem is if it starts clicking or making funny noises then get it looked at immediately, not in a week or too. The other problem is that if it goes then retracts then your fiddler and pop.

It is possible to retract the cct even if the spring is ok, tried it on a few with a club hammer.

When I tested my mod and hit then so hard the external alloy case broke it two first without my mod giving way so that's good enough for me.

Del.

[ex-viffer]

Del said:

Uuum, exported the APE tensioners to a fellow stormer...

It was me he exported them to. Fitting them is very easy, but the adjustment is a bit tricky. It's easy to get paranoid about them being too loose, and you can easily overtighten them, even just using your fingers as I did. Still haven't got the tension quite right - one's too loose (judging from the noise), and the other one is too tight when the engine is hot. I'll get it right eventually, I hope....

[essexbloke]

Uuum, exported the APE tensioners to a fellow stormer, I have a set of modified ones on test in a VTR at the moment, done 1000 miles and now going for and additional 2k then I'll check them again. The problem is that the tensioner has no rachet mechanism and is always moving and the spring is like a clock spring, rotary instead of a compression type. Also when the bike is revved above 7000 rpm the tensioner gets really tight and when left on tickover for a few minutes it gets v-loose. The constant movement seems to weaken the spring and then it snaps, then when a fair bit of load is applied it will fully retract + bang!. The modified ones allow the automatic tensioning to be done and then they can be locked off so the spring is no longer moving, the spring pressure is still there if the locking was to come loose. This mod works ok for me and will see if the test bike goes bang, hope not.

I'm not sure whether a tap will do shite, sounds abit wierd, maybe you should just kick the tyre. would be better to spend a little time and check it out properly or if in doubt change them, i think the pair with gaskets are about £100. The rear is a doddle but for the front the tank and airbox have to come off but that's really it. Obviously the timing holes too and sparks plugs.

I never got around to fitting the APE ones, sorry.

Del.

I hope it dont go bang too..........