1999 Honda VTR Firestorm struggling to start

[shammi]

Hi, we have been having starting issues in our Firestorm for quite some time now and in the past 2 days it has gotten worse. Getting the bike started has become very challenging. When we hold the push start button, the instrument cluster would dim and the starter motor makes a ‘wrring’ noise like its struggling to turn. In the past few months this would happen time to time, but it was possible to jump start the bike using jumper cables with the help from a car battery. Due to this, I even replaced the battery recently thinking it was the cause of the issue. However, even jump starts don’t work anymore. Not even with the old battery in. So my guess is that the battery in the end is not the what’s causing this problem.

We then thought the issue was with the starter motor, so we took that out and took it apart. We noticed some brushes had worn out and so we replaced them with new ones. The starter motor would spin without any problems when held to a battery outside the bike even before the brush replacement. However, when we put it back in the bike, it made no difference.

We did this small test where we removed the spark plugs in both cylinders and hit start to see if the engine would turn and it was able to turn the engine without any trouble. However, when we put the plugs back in and tried again, the starter makes the ‘wrring’ noise again like a huge load has been put on to it and it is struggling to turn the engine. We are unsure about what is going on. We were only able to start the bike once today. We even let it run for few minutes to warm up, however when we stopped the engine and try to start again, the same issue would happen. Has the starter motor gone bad, or is it something else?

Any help to troubleshoot this issue is greatly appreciated. Many Thanks.

[MacV2]

Could be the starter cable is the issue.

When you took the starter off what was the condition of the bolt holding the starter cable. Was it badly coroded ?

If that or the cable itself is coroded it will cause issues, loss of power getting to the started.

Are there any noises from the left hand side case ? Could be the sprag clutch not engaing properly...

You say it started with a jump could be the battery failing under load... Try a new battery as your first port of call...

[shammi]

Could be the starter cable is the issue.

When you took the starter off what was the condition of the bolt holding the starter cable. Was it badly coroded ?

If that or the cable itself is coroded it will cause issues, loss of power getting to the started.

Are there any noises from the left hand side case ? Could be the sprag clutch not engaing properly...

You say it started with a jump could be the battery failing under load... Try a new battery as your first port of call...

The bolt holding the starter was corroded. We replaced it with a fresh new one and cleaned the area around it. Cleaned the connector cable too. So pretty sure no issues in connectivity side.

The battery I have replaced is also brand new. We checked it with a multi meter and its doing well.

I have been reading this evening trying to identify what's going on. And as you said I have some suspicion that it may be the sprag clutch because at times we can hear some screeching noise. Not sure from which side of the engine however, will check that again. However the engine turns over effortlessly when the plugs are out. So if the sprag clutch is bad, would it be able to turn the engine when the plugs are out?

[tony.mon]

Yes, the screeching is caused by the two pressed-together gears on a shaft fixed to one of them slipping when they should stay locked together.
If the plugs are out there is much less effort needed to turn the engine over, and therefore less torque going through the transfer gears.

The only other potential cause is manual ccts being too tight, that can also make the engine reluctant to turn over and produce a screeching sound.

[fabiostar]

bingo, the sprag clutch is top of the list if its making screeching sounds . mine done the same thing, i had mine pinned and welded, end of problem for ever

[shammi]

Yes, the screeching is caused by the two pressed-together gears on a shaft fixed to one of them slipping when they should stay locked together.
If the plugs are out there is much less effort needed to turn the engine over, and therefore less torque going through the transfer gears.

The only other potential cause is manual ccts being too tight, that can also make the engine reluctant to turn over and produce a screeching sound.

I see. My bike still has the automatic chain tensioner. Soo I'm down to the sprag clutch.

[shammi]

bingo, the sprag clutch is top of the list if its making screeching sounds . mine done the same thing, i had mine pinned and welded, end of problem for ever

Hi, could you explain how you welded your one. I haven't dealt with an issue like this before, so not sure what to expect. If you have some pictures of your fix, do share them too. Many thanks.

[tony.mon]

I put a "how to" in the Workshop Knowledgebase as to how to get the part out without too much work.
If I recall correctly there were some posts on there detailing welding options.

[sirch345]

I put a "how to" in the Workshop Knowledgebase as to how to get the part out without too much work.
If I recall correctly there were some posts on there detailing welding options.

This is Tony's "How To" here:
https://www.vtr1000.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=20849

Mac posted some photo's and how he removed the gears here:
http://www.vtr1000.org/phpBB3/viewtopic ... 9c#p497401

Chris.

[tony.mon]

Thanks, Chris.

[shammi]

I put a "how to" in the Workshop Knowledgebase as to how to get the part out without too much work.
If I recall correctly there were some posts on there detailing welding options.

I put a "how to" in the Workshop Knowledgebase as to how to get the part out without too much work.
If I recall correctly there were some posts on there detailing welding options.

This is Tony's "How To" here:
https://www.vtr1000.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=20849

Mac posted some photo's and how he removed the gears here:
http://www.vtr1000.org/phpBB3/viewtopic ... 9c#p497401

Chris.

Thanks guys, we will be taking it apart this weekend. Will get back with an update by then.
Thanks again.