Change in emulsion tubes after 2001?
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Change in emulsion tubes after 2001?
Hey Guy's,
I've been hangin around looking for a few years, I had the first VTR that came into Australia. back in '97, I raced it in the Australian Superbike Championships, I got it from the stock 96hp to 136, before any stuff was available for them, I'll have to post a pic or two for ya's.
So, after 20 years I thought I'd get another VTR as they are so cheap now (the ass has fallen out of the VTR market here in Oz), I just bought a very clean 2002 for $2800 AUD (about 1300 pounds).
I have been going crazy studying as many pages as can here (Wife is not happy ;-) ), I'm spew'n that I didn't keep much info or parts from 20 years ago ;-)
ok to the point sorry, I have measured some needles that I have kick'n around, found that I have a set of A1UC & A1UD needles (also a pair of A1UB's) from the earlier model which are a touch richer than the A1UE & A1UF needles in the bike, so I have decided to run the C & D needles. While doing some home work I find the emulsion tubes changed from 2001 onwards (see below), anyone know the difference?
To 2000: Front ~ 16166-MBB-640, Rear ~ 16165-MBB-640
2001 onwards: Front ~ 16166-MBB-D41, Rear ~ 16165-MBB-D41
Regards, John.
I've been hangin around looking for a few years, I had the first VTR that came into Australia. back in '97, I raced it in the Australian Superbike Championships, I got it from the stock 96hp to 136, before any stuff was available for them, I'll have to post a pic or two for ya's.
So, after 20 years I thought I'd get another VTR as they are so cheap now (the ass has fallen out of the VTR market here in Oz), I just bought a very clean 2002 for $2800 AUD (about 1300 pounds).
I have been going crazy studying as many pages as can here (Wife is not happy ;-) ), I'm spew'n that I didn't keep much info or parts from 20 years ago ;-)
ok to the point sorry, I have measured some needles that I have kick'n around, found that I have a set of A1UC & A1UD needles (also a pair of A1UB's) from the earlier model which are a touch richer than the A1UE & A1UF needles in the bike, so I have decided to run the C & D needles. While doing some home work I find the emulsion tubes changed from 2001 onwards (see below), anyone know the difference?
To 2000: Front ~ 16166-MBB-640, Rear ~ 16165-MBB-640
2001 onwards: Front ~ 16166-MBB-D41, Rear ~ 16165-MBB-D41
Regards, John.
Re: Change in emulsion tubes after 2001?
Can you tell us what was done to your race bike To get to 136 ?
Keep us informed as to what you do as you progress please.
How about some pics !
Keep us informed as to what you do as you progress please.
How about some pics !
South Coast
New South Wales
Australia
New South Wales
Australia
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- Posts: 43
- Joined: Sun Oct 13, 2019 3:11 am
Re: Change in emulsion tubes after 2001?
Hi :-). Sure.
My '97 VTR was the first one flown into the country for design approval, l worked for Honda Australia at the time, l had free use of their race team dyno.
MODS
Reground cams, standard springs.
We got JE to make the high comp pistons, as nothing was available at the time.
I ported the heads.
I polished the rods.
I made a fibreglass airbox that encased the carbs.
We were running pump fuel.
Barnett clutch springs.
My friend and l made a full 2" twin exhaust.
Standard valves.
Standard carb needles.
Both short intake trumpets.
Standard ignition.
All this was before HRC made their stuff for VTR's, wish l'd realized about blocking the main airbleeds at the time, on the dyno we were up to 300 (3mm) main jets to get the mixture right at 10,000rpm meaning a bad rich misfire at 6,000 ! The misfire caused me to highside in qualifying at the Phillip Island '98 World Superbikes. I can email you the pics :-)
We didn't even know about setting the TPS ! :-)
On the dyno l found 5 more hp at the top end, and 8 hp less in the midrange when 2 short stacks compared to 2 long ones.
With the exhaust we had to link the rear cylinder header pipe back to itself after the balance-join, the rear cyl exhaust pulse was too strong at the balance-joint, causing a positive pulse at the front cyl port, causing a midrange mis-fire. Look at a TL1000S complete exhaust to see what l mean, that's how l got the idea :-)
In the Australian Superbike Championship races, l would only lose two bike lengths to the Team Kawasaki ZX7's.
Also l had a bad weaving problem with a 6" Marchesini rear wheel, tyre technology at the time had not caught up with rim widths, l should have stayed with a 5.5", ah well that's all in the past.
I'm new here and can't msg anyone, feel free to email me for more details, regards, John.
Johnsuperbike AT gmail.com (replace AT with @ without any spaces).
Facebook: Johnny Oh
My '97 VTR was the first one flown into the country for design approval, l worked for Honda Australia at the time, l had free use of their race team dyno.
MODS
Reground cams, standard springs.
We got JE to make the high comp pistons, as nothing was available at the time.
I ported the heads.
I polished the rods.
I made a fibreglass airbox that encased the carbs.
We were running pump fuel.
Barnett clutch springs.
My friend and l made a full 2" twin exhaust.
Standard valves.
Standard carb needles.
Both short intake trumpets.
Standard ignition.
All this was before HRC made their stuff for VTR's, wish l'd realized about blocking the main airbleeds at the time, on the dyno we were up to 300 (3mm) main jets to get the mixture right at 10,000rpm meaning a bad rich misfire at 6,000 ! The misfire caused me to highside in qualifying at the Phillip Island '98 World Superbikes. I can email you the pics :-)
We didn't even know about setting the TPS ! :-)
On the dyno l found 5 more hp at the top end, and 8 hp less in the midrange when 2 short stacks compared to 2 long ones.
With the exhaust we had to link the rear cylinder header pipe back to itself after the balance-join, the rear cyl exhaust pulse was too strong at the balance-joint, causing a positive pulse at the front cyl port, causing a midrange mis-fire. Look at a TL1000S complete exhaust to see what l mean, that's how l got the idea :-)
In the Australian Superbike Championship races, l would only lose two bike lengths to the Team Kawasaki ZX7's.
Also l had a bad weaving problem with a 6" Marchesini rear wheel, tyre technology at the time had not caught up with rim widths, l should have stayed with a 5.5", ah well that's all in the past.
I'm new here and can't msg anyone, feel free to email me for more details, regards, John.
Johnsuperbike AT gmail.com (replace AT with @ without any spaces).
Facebook: Johnny Oh
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- Posts: 43
- Joined: Sun Oct 13, 2019 3:11 am
Re: Change in emulsion tubes after 2001?
I polished the rods after throwing one up between the cylinder V :-)
The bike held the Thunderbike (singles, twins & triples) lap record at Winton and Broadford race tracks, until a factory 955 Duke came along :-)
The bike held the Thunderbike (singles, twins & triples) lap record at Winton and Broadford race tracks, until a factory 955 Duke came along :-)
Re: Change in emulsion tubes after 2001?
The only thing that was changed was the part number......still the same bits thoughJohn Orchard wrote: ↑Tue Oct 15, 2019 8:21 am Hey Guy's,
To 2000: Front ~ 16166-MBB-640, Rear ~ 16165-MBB-640
2001 onwards: Front ~ 16166-MBB-D41, Rear ~ 16165-MBB-D41
Regards, John.
Loud pipes don't save lives, knowing how to ride your bike will save your life.
Re: Change in emulsion tubes after 2001?
Welcome aboard John
Interesting to hear about what you were doing with the Firestorm/Superhawk all those years ago I bet you do wish you had hung onto some of those parts and INFO from back then.
I changed your email address (replaced the @ with AT) so spybots don't pick it up, I'm sure you get enough spam already
Chris.
Interesting to hear about what you were doing with the Firestorm/Superhawk all those years ago I bet you do wish you had hung onto some of those parts and INFO from back then.
I changed your email address (replaced the @ with AT) so spybots don't pick it up, I'm sure you get enough spam already
Chris.
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- Posts: 43
- Joined: Sun Oct 13, 2019 3:11 am
Re: Change in emulsion tubes after 2001?
Thanks Guy's :-)
Re: Change in emulsion tubes after 2001?
welcome along sir, so you were kinda doing the whole crazy tuning sh1t a long time go .. that is serious HP to be getting all those years ago before the tuning shops we know now got involved
the older i get,the faster i was
Re: Change in emulsion tubes after 2001?
welcome John, it will be great if you are able to share as you remember the details of your old bike build, or find any pictures.
AMcQ
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- Posts: 43
- Joined: Sun Oct 13, 2019 3:11 am
Re: Change in emulsion tubes after 2001?
WRONG !!!8541Hawk wrote: ↑Wed Oct 16, 2019 5:35 pmThe only thing that was changed was the part number......still the same bits thoughJohn Orchard wrote: ↑Tue Oct 15, 2019 8:21 am Hey Guy's,
To 2000: Front ~ 16166-MBB-640, Rear ~ 16165-MBB-640
2001 onwards: Front ~ 16166-MBB-D41, Rear ~ 16165-MBB-D41
Regards, John.
Re: Change in emulsion tubes after 2001?
Well since you seem to be all knowing, why don't you tell us the difference instead of just shouting wrong? It would be nice to know as in the US the emulsion tubes never changed...... https://www.ronayers.com/oemparts/parts ... 66-mbb-640 just hit the "where used" button.John Orchard wrote: ↑Wed Nov 11, 2020 2:10 pmWRONG !!!8541Hawk wrote: ↑Wed Oct 16, 2019 5:35 pmThe only thing that was changed was the part number......still the same bits thoughJohn Orchard wrote: ↑Tue Oct 15, 2019 8:21 am Hey Guy's,
To 2000: Front ~ 16166-MBB-640, Rear ~ 16165-MBB-640
2001 onwards: Front ~ 16166-MBB-D41, Rear ~ 16165-MBB-D41
Regards, John.
In fact the second set of P\Ns are not available in the US
Loud pipes don't save lives, knowing how to ride your bike will save your life.
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- Joined: Wed Jul 18, 2018 9:44 pm
- Location: sunny west wales
Re: Change in emulsion tubes after 2001?
looking forward to seeing some pics
Re: Change in emulsion tubes after 2001?
For the cost, why not order one of each and compare?
Changes to the emulsion tubes are more likely to be for emission reasons than power, to make sure it's compliant in a new market during the model run, or to meet more stringent emissions regs.
Changes to the emulsion tubes are more likely to be for emission reasons than power, to make sure it's compliant in a new market during the model run, or to meet more stringent emissions regs.
It's not falling off, it's an upgrade opportunity.
Re: Change in emulsion tubes after 2001?
The German VTR expert vtr-higgens.de lists the D/C needles as the best combination.
These models should already have them:
E = U.K, IIG= Germany Typ2, F=France, ED= Europe-direkt sales
IT= Italy/Spain , ND= Northern Europe , U= Australia
These models had different needles and would benefit from a changes:
SW=Switzerland , AR= Austria , G= Germany Sweden Finland
The so called kit-needles have the part number
16027-MBB-640 (front)
16012-MBB-640 (rear)
The marking should be
Front A1UD
Rear A1UC
Models converted to kit needles showed increased mid range.
He doesn't list any changes in emulsion tubes.
These models should already have them:
E = U.K, IIG= Germany Typ2, F=France, ED= Europe-direkt sales
IT= Italy/Spain , ND= Northern Europe , U= Australia
These models had different needles and would benefit from a changes:
SW=Switzerland , AR= Austria , G= Germany Sweden Finland
The so called kit-needles have the part number
16027-MBB-640 (front)
16012-MBB-640 (rear)
The marking should be
Front A1UD
Rear A1UC
Models converted to kit needles showed increased mid range.
He doesn't list any changes in emulsion tubes.
Bye
Martin
Martin