Manual CCTs

[sirch345]

.......Just one question I assume the new valves will require the usual paste and grinding to make a good seal ??

Silver lining: it's the rear cylinder head, that's only a four-hour job including lapping and retiming.

Front one's all bloody day.

As Tony says, yes the valves will need lapping in (grinding in as you say).

I put this together (link below) to make life a bit easier for setting the valve timing up before removing the CCT's. As AMcQ says, it's not just a matter of getting each cylinder at TDC, each cylinder also needs to be on the compression stroke for the Firestorm.
http://www.vtr1000.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=8326

Chris.

[bucklandswifty]

Hi All

As a newbie here I am checking something before I install my new "philpont" manual cct's which I purchased on Ebay. I have downloaded and read through the instructions on this forum on how to install manual cct's and would like to verify a couple of points..

Whilst the document refers to installing oem cct's -

"REMEMBER TO TAKE THE METAL CAPS OFF THE OLD CCT
PLUNGER HEADS AND FIT ONTO THE NEW ONES, AS THE NEW ONES ARE
NOT SUPPLIED WITH THEM!!!!!!."

Are the philpont manual versions good to go as supplied or do they require anything doing to them?

The oem cct's I removed were identical to the ones I replaced them with, having a hard plastic end, retained by a roll pin, which has a circular indent from the cct blade, what is the metal bit?

When the new manual cct's are fitted, is it okay to wind them in until finger tight and then back off 1/4 turn as I have read somewhere on the forum?

Any advice gratefully received before I plunge in, no pun intended!

[Wicky]

Make sure when removing old CCT that a metal cap (that fits over the plastic knobbins) doesn't get left up the hole. Draw the old OEM CCT as straight as possible. New manuals go in as they are without extra gubbins on the 'coach bolt'.

When the new manual cct's are fitted, is it okay to wind them in until finger tight and then back off 1/4 turn as I have read somewhere on the forum?

That's correct - precisely somewhere between not too tight and not too loose. Turn engine over a couple or three turns by hand using the 17mm socket access through alternator once the manuals are installed to shakedown and listen to any odd noises.

Have you got both the alternator inspection hex caps undone/loosened as these can seize (esp the larger one) If necessary drill a shallow hole into the ally cap and use it to drift it undone.

[bucklandswifty]

Thanks Wicky

I am almost certain the metal "Cap Lifter Pat" as shown on the Honda parts diagram is missing from my bike. The first thing I did when I got it last year was to change the cct's for oem's, both came out like the new ones supplied, I had no idea about the metal bits on the end! I think I must be one lucky bas*ard to have got this far without them! I will double check the metal bits are not stuck up the tube. Is it possible for them to drop into the crank case if left behind?

I do have both caps off, without damage too! I had to replace them when I changed the cct's last time and was careful not to do a Geoff Capes on them! I am looking forward to fitting the manuals this weekend, will be a weight off my mind. Thanks again for the advice.

Cheers

Chris

[tony.mon]

No, you can't lose the end caps when you take them out, they stay on the end of the old one.

You can tell really easily because when you pull out the ones that are in your engine they will have circular indentations from the pattern on the rear of the tensioner blades imprinted on the rubber if you haven't got caps.

They can't fall into the engine.

And as said above, the caps only need to go onto standard ccts or ones fitted with a stopper mod, they are not fitted to a manual one.

[AMCQ46]

strange that they are not on the CCT's you had in the bike, sounds like someone else already fitted new ones, and didnt know to take the metal caps off the old ones and put on new ones!

[bucklandswifty]

When I look at the end of the cct's I removed they have as described the circular indentations, knowing no better I put the new oem ones in as is! I am fitting the manual cct's on Saturday and consider myself well lucky to have got away with it! Many thanks to all for the information, all the combined knowledge on this forum is invaluable!

Cheers

Chris

[bucklandswifty]

Just a quick update - I have fitted the manual ccts and all is well, sounds quieter than when the oem's were fitted. Just a hint of paranoia though.. When I fitted them as per instructions here on the forum, I wound them in to a good finger tight and backed off quarter of a turn, is it possible to have them too tight and damage the cam chain and associated tensioner parts? I am such a worrier!

Cheers

Chris

[Kev L]

Don't worry mate you are not alone. When I changed mine to manuals I posted a similar message on here when I had finished. I think we should name it something like manual wobbles, as I have seen loads of messages since.
As far as my understanding goes if they are too tight they will squeal, if they are too loose they will rattle. If it sounds right it probably is.

[klx678]

Yes, it is possible to overtighten them if you use a wrench on the adjuster and actually tighten it beyond what finger tight is.

The thing is that the best adjustment is to have all the play out of the chain, but no actual tension. One thing to realize is if the adjuster bolt is an M8-1.25 (the ones I use are) the actual total movement in one full turn is only about .050", so that 1/4 turn is only about .013" allowing slight slack in the chain (very slight) when cold. When hot, the thermal expansion of the engine parts will take up roughly that amount of slack. It is close enough to function well without strain on any engine parts.

In a side note, I played around trying to see just how tight I could twist something finger tight. I put a 17mm socket on my trusty beam style inch/pound torque wrench, held on and twisted - couldn't make the indicator deflect! Try it and see what you can do.

So as you see, finger tight isn't putting too much tension on the cam drive and backing it off a shade simply allows for heat expansion. Probably a better set up than what any of the spring tension adjustment set ups are worth on most tensioners for my money.

Oh, and finger tight is plenty good, once you lock down the lock nut the adjustment isn't going anywhere. Never tighten beyond finger tight - I don't care how weak or strong you may be. The difference between the strongest and weakest will probably be less than 1/8 turn of the bolt.

[bucklandswifty]

Thanks for the reasurance guys! I shall leave well alone and just enjoy the ride.

Cheers

Chris