Another strange noise!

Need advice on which oil to use or which tyre best suits you? Share your topic and get help here.
User avatar
benny hedges
Posts: 6110
Joined: Sun Oct 18, 2009 5:09 pm
Location: Warrington

Re: Another strange noise!

Post by benny hedges »

first off, when did you have the camchain tensioners replaced & who did it?
the not revving over 7k, in fact everything you describe, suggests the cam timing has been set up wrong - 180 degrees out.
you need to read and understand the procedure for replacing the cct as described in the guide in the workshop section.
you are like the 5th person this month so far who has had the exact same problem.

it's quite easy to fix.
you will need to remove the tank & airbox.
take off BOTH cam covers (makes it easier to be 100% sure the cams are set right.)
remove the inspection plugs from the timing cover on the left.
remove the spark plugs.
turn the engine over by hand, anticlockwise until the ft mark is in the timing window, aligned with the mark.
feel for compression by putting your finger over the plug hole.
check the position of the front cams - the FE & FI marks should be far left, far right, (not together in the middle & upside down) and the cam lobes facing away from each other, pointing diagonally outwards - this means the engine is on the compression stroke.
if it's not on the compression stroke, rotate anticlockwise 360 degrees and line it all up again.

thats the front set up ok, as reference. now check the rear cams.
turn the engine again 270 degrees or 3/4 turn to line up the rt mark.
the RI & RE marks should be right way up at the far left and right, as before, with the cam lobes pointing diagonally inwards .
(but they won't be - cos it's been set up wrong)

at this point, without moving the flywheel, remove the rear camchain tensioner (catch the bit of oil on a rag)
stuff bogroll down the camchain tunnel and remove the top guide
remove the cam cover from the inlet cam (the left one!)
remove the inlet cam.
jog the chain over the exhaust cam until the RE mark lines up with the face of the cylinder head.
refit the inlet cam so the RI mark lines up with the cyl head face.
pull the chain to the rear of the bike to check cam position under tension... the slack should be on the cct side.
adjust the cam positions if necessary by jogging the chain over the tops of the gears.
refit the cam cover and guide (use locking compound)
refit the cct and turn the engine over by hand a few times to check.
double check the cam positions before refitting.
line up the front again as above, then turn 270 and recheck the rear... if you are 100% happy then all should be ok so put it all back together and enjoy the vtr as it should be. :thumbup:

if you are taking it to someone to have this done, make sure they read & understand this - AND the replacing cct guide in the workshop section.
you do not have piston slap, the cam timing is wrong.
this should take a max of 3-4hrs for a nooby to do and 2hrs for a pro.
* the rough idle is also because of this, but once its back together you might want to check the carb balance.
if so it may be worth installing a front vacuum take-off point while you have it in bits.
this goes on the blanking plug on the front cylinder inlet under the carb.
break up a pushbike pump adapter for the brass adapter screw and fit a length of pipe to it (from any car accessory shop)
when not in use this can be blanked off with a golf tee or run to a scottoiler.
instructions for balancing are in the pdf manual, downloadable for free from the workshop link.
you can get a good set of vacuum gauges off ebay for about 20 notes.
You do not have to say anything. But it may harm your defence if you do not mention when posting something which you later rely on in quote. Anything you do say may be ripped to sh*t.
tony.mon
Posts: 16035
Joined: Wed Jul 25, 2007 10:46 pm
Location: Norf Kent

Re: Another strange noise!

Post by tony.mon »

Yes, you have the timing 180 degrees out. Classic symptoms, it feels like it can't get enough air in at 6000+.
And that's exactly the problem, the airbox can';t refill before the second piston tries to breath in.
Try again, but this time follow Sirch's instructions carefully, and after timing the fornt one count how many turns at the crank until you get to the right place to time the rear one, or if you start with the rear, vice versa.
Read the instructions and it will all become clear.
Still don't know what your noise is, though, but doubt small ends as these lumps are fairly bulletproof, and very understressed.
It's not falling off, it's an upgrade opportunity.
FVFstorm
Posts: 9
Joined: Sun Feb 27, 2011 1:10 pm

Re: Another strange noise!

Post by FVFstorm »

My God what a difference! Thank you Benny and Tony Nail on the head, timing was 180 out! I believe it was a previous owner who's done this as the cam cover bolts were well roughed up and struggled to get a purchase on them. Plus the cams had what looked like tipex writing on them. Anyway all done now it idles and runs beautifully sounds incredible and pulls like a train.

Many thanks for all the advice!
User avatar
benny hedges
Posts: 6110
Joined: Sun Oct 18, 2009 5:09 pm
Location: Warrington

Re: Another strange noise!

Post by benny hedges »

well done for having a go yourself :biggrin

the previous owner no doubt used the haynes manual which is very misleading.
99% he undid the cct's without setting tdc, then heard a funny noise and decided to get the book out....

the number of people ive spoke to who say yeh i had one of them but i sold it cos it wouldnt rev over 7k :roll:
very easy mistake to make - but as you now know, it's very easy to put right.
bet you're glad you didnt go for the £300 service now eh :Ball Kick:
You do not have to say anything. But it may harm your defence if you do not mention when posting something which you later rely on in quote. Anything you do say may be ripped to sh*t.
FVFstorm
Posts: 9
Joined: Sun Feb 27, 2011 1:10 pm

Re: Another strange noise!

Post by FVFstorm »

Well having only ever taken bikes to garages for MOTs I am quite happy to get hands on!

Yeah it's easy up until the removal of the front cam cover which is a PITA to get off you need small Honda hands to get in there and getting the top two bolts back in are even more fun!

Another thing the original noise is still there but much less noticable I assume that's due to the engine not being under powered as before it was under much greater load on lower revs.
tony.mon
Posts: 16035
Joined: Wed Jul 25, 2007 10:46 pm
Location: Norf Kent

Re: Another strange noise!

Post by tony.mon »

Well done, result, not so bad once you're in there, is it?

Now balance the carbs, and if there's still that small rattle under big throttle openings at low revs, it's preignition, they all do it if thrashed.
Try an anti-knock additive.
But usually 98 Ron works ok.
It's not falling off, it's an upgrade opportunity.
4stroker
Posts: 5
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2011 6:44 pm

Re: Another strange noise!

Post by 4stroker »

sounds like a top or bottom end bearing to me
User avatar
tinysmall
Posts: 397
Joined: Mon Feb 14, 2011 9:46 pm

Re: Another strange noise!

Post by tinysmall »

FVFstorm wrote:Sorry to drag this one back up but I have had a chance to ride the bike alot more recently and have noticed some other symptoms and wondered if they are all linked! So the noise is still there still very noticeable when cold not so much when warmed up except when given a handful. Mainly below 2-3000 rpm when pulling off. Spoke with a friend of mine who used to race nortons etc and he thought it might be piston slap?

Also noticed after a long ride from london to Nottingham the fuelling is pretty unsteady as in if I roll off the throttle it takes about 2 or 3 seconds sometimes for the engine to react and then it's major engine breaking as the clutch is all out.

Finally I can't get it to rev over 7k it kind of hesitates at 7 and then just won't get any more powerful no matter how much I give her and kind of pulses on and off power until I drop down the rev range?!?!?

I am very confused could I have timing out?

Thanks guys
Yes you have set the timing 180 degrees out. The haynes manual tells lies, don't trust it. The noise you are hearing is pretty normal to be honest. Get your carbs balanced and it might improve it a bit better, get it dynojetted and it will improve it more but it will never go. Make sure that your chain is tensioned properly, make sure your cct's are finger tight then backed off half a turn and locktighted and make sure it has clean oil then just forget about the noise and ride it. Mine makes all sorts of odd noises and it's easy to become paranoid about them. Do the above then just ignore it.
Never argue with idiots. They drag you down to their level then beat you with experience!
Post Reply