College CCT help

[Rider on a Storm]

??? sorry Tony but you did say they used gear driven cams, to me that sounds like problem sorted, they decided that using existing tensioner was not he way forward and to be fair this was a good decision. Back to discussion, cct failure was caused by a weak spring, solution make it stronger,design change not required, simple fix, if it dont work cause of weakness in design strengthen it, dont re-design it an find out in a few years that design has flaws too, all Im saying is we all no the spring is the cause, why then would u design something completly new for the sake of a better spring, think about it. The guy wants to make ccts and sell them, best of luck to him, but if u believe his bull about college well that is up to you, he should have the balls to ask the right questions ffs, or at the very least ask for a used cct so he could measure it himself or dont they teach them to ask them questions in college, ccts failure has been addressed by all the big 4 so I dont think a college grad is going to influence their engineers, especially when the guy has to ask for measurements instead of going out and actually getting a cct for his profect

[alec]

wouldn't a stronger spring cause it to over tension the chain though, i'd have thought the spring was made to allow the correct pressure on it.

[Kev L]

I'm just waiting for Beamish to come back on line and read ROAS bit!!

[Rider on a Storm]

wouldn't a stronger spring cause it to over tension the chain though, i'd have thought the spring was made to allow the correct pressure on it.

When I say stronger I mean one that wont break, or rust

[Rider on a Storm]

btw, not trying to give the guy a hard time, well its just that it dont add up what he says, hell I'd have given a CAD drawing of a cct if he had of come out and asked

[alec]

wouldn't a stronger spring cause it to over tension the chain though, i'd have thought the spring was made to allow the correct pressure on it.

When I say stronger I mean one that wont break, or rust

sorry Tray wasn't picking holes just asking a question

[Rider on a Storm]

wouldn't a stronger spring cause it to over tension the chain though, i'd have thought the spring was made to allow the correct pressure on it.

When I say stronger I mean one that wont break, or rust

sorry Tray wasn't picking holes just asking a question

no need for apoligies mate I no you were only asking a question, sorry if my answer seem abrupt didnt mean for it to be

[tony.mon]

If you are redesigning the cct, then could you design it to a length tba the cam chain would not slip over the sprocket, and have a red pin in the end when failure happens gives you tba indication.

This solves two problems, no more mangled valves, and easier to manufacture.

This isn't a bad idea, it would be easier and cheaper to make a closer-fitting top shield that would sit tight enough to the sprockets so that a slack chain couldn't jump over the teeth.
The standard tensioner spring would still fail after a period, and the chain would rattle around, but like lots of other bikes you just fit a new tensioner and carry on.

The shield fitted as standard isn't good enough to prevent this from happening, but it wouldn't take a lot of effort to make one that worked.

[Beamish]

Sorry I have just got up after laughing my ass off It just shows how the tinterweb can mis represent and give the wrong impression. ROAS I can can see why you came to that conclusion but you are so far off the mark its laughable . I am a 40 yr old RAF aircraft tech who has decided he needs to get some mech eng (as opposed to Aeronautical Eng) quaifications before getting out of the RAF. The reason for all this invest is this: if you have ever done a HNC/HND/degree you have to come up with a design based on a current fault. As a previous owner of the Firestorm I thought the CCT issue was perfect. Warby came up with a plan from a VFR I think that had two opposing plungers at 90 degrees. That in itself in my opinion was an answer, couple this to an indicator pin letting the owner know the spring had failed and it would be a CCT for dummies unlike the manual CCT that needs a qualified mechanics ear and set up.
P.S I am not going to bore the ti*s of you but funnily enough the spring calcs for the CCT give a minimum spring diameter of just 0.125mm That quite suprised me.
Thanks for the interest guys and help yourself to the Blueprint for the golden CCT I hope it makes someone some money. By the way ROAS I like the bling manuals you are kicking out, they have the look of real quality.

[Kev L]

I am not going to bore the ti*s of you but funnily enough the spring calcs for the CCT give a minimum spring diameter of just 0.125mm

Pardon my ignorance but what are the dimensions of the actual spring in the stock CCT?

[tony.mon]

I've been looking for it (yet can't find), but there is info on here somewhere for a bloke called David Greenwood who sold spare springs.
AFAIR they were stainless, but of course a stainless spring doesn't hold its temper as well as carbon steel, so may not have been the complete and easy answer it seemed.

However this might be an answer for those who feel that a sprung plunger is the way Honda designed it, and so want to avoid a manual solution.

[Beamish]

I am not going to bore the ti*s of you but funnily enough the spring calcs for the CCT give a minimum spring diameter of just 0.125mm

Pardon my ignorance but what are the dimensions of the actual spring in the stock CCT?

No idea Kev, its a bloomin biro spring! Torsion spring from a Parker pen.

[Beamish]

I've been looking for it (yet can't find), but there is info on here somewhere for a bloke called David Greenwood who sold spare springs.
AFAIR they were stainless, but of course a stainless spring doesn't hold its temper as well as carbon steel, so may not have been the complete and easy answer it seemed.

However this might be an answer for those who feel that a sprung plunger is the way Honda designed it, and so want to avoid a manual solution.

Tony, I went the way of David Greenwood springs on mine. Prob would have fitted the stopper mod had I kept the bike though!

[elric]

I too have a fair amount of mech design exp.
I think the design might be a good design for the grades (not the bike), but the more features you add the more pontential to go wrong, to me the simplest is often the best and TBH ROAS's design is simply that but it is a design that is unlikely to impress and thus not get you your qualification but for the purpose of it's design I doubt you can better it.

If people want the spring pressure then I'd look at a design similar to this,


This system is used on my other bike, yamy FZ750. you can open the back and check the spring or take it out altogether, yes it has another spring which could fail but if during your inspection the plunger withdrew you would know to get it fixed before you start it. If it fails in use then the ratchet keeps it safe, once again it is pretty simple.
However those are not available and ROAS ones are

[Beamish]

Elric, funily enough a single plunger with ratchet lock was option two, didnt quite tick all the boxes for Uni but would be a good real time solution.