cct stopper mod

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tastethefloor
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cct stopper mod

Post by tastethefloor »

hi guys,
I read about making a stopper mod in originals cct...instead of inserting into them one 11mm small iron cylinder, wouldn't it make more sense to put a second spring? is this a bad idea?
sorry for my english
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AMCQ46
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Re: cct stopper mod

Post by AMCQ46 »

TTF,
good question, but it needs to be a solid part not a spring, as its role is to be a limit stop.

also it should not be a default 11mm, it has to be cut to the specific length that each cylinder needs. so the measurement process defined in the stopper mod instructions are critical.

if you fit a stopper that is much too long, the auto CCT function will be disabled, and the cam chain will not have enough slack. If you fit one that much too short, it will allow the chain to go too slack if (when) the CCT spring fails, and the chain will be able to jump a tooth.

an error of +-0.25 on the stopper length is probably OK, but you do need to measure, as I have seen sizes from 9mm to 12mm needed
AMcQ
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tastethefloor
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Re: cct stopper mod

Post by tastethefloor »

the idea would be to insert a 15mm spring powerful and strong enough to push on the chain "skate" once the mainspring breaks
tony.mon
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Re: cct stopper mod

Post by tony.mon »

It might work if the new spring is shorter than the original but also smaller diameter, to fit inside the original one.

But how would you know that the original one had failed?
With a solid stopper you get a rattle to let you know, perhaps a second spring might damp that out.
It's not falling off, it's an upgrade opportunity.
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AMCQ46
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Re: cct stopper mod

Post by AMCQ46 »

tastethefloor wrote: Fri Feb 12, 2021 10:00 am the idea would be to insert a 15mm spring powerful and strong enough to push on the chain "skate" once the mainspring breaks
my main worry is that during normal operation, you now have double the spring force inside the auto CCT compared to it original design, and that could lead to it not tensioning as intended by Honda.
AMcQ
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sirch345
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Re: cct stopper mod

Post by sirch345 »

Hi TTF, an interesting thought.

As Al (AMcQ46) points out each bike is different in the exact length of the stopper rod (iron cylinder as you call it) required. I think the reason of varying lengths could be down to various stages of the cam chains life, as it must stretch to a degree as the miles of the bike increase, plus some engines are more abused than others. So that would mean your 2nd spring would have to be giving the exact same pressure being applied by the original spring. Not some thing to be achieved easily would be my thoughts, as the original OEM CCT's do self adjust as the rev's rise and fall. The manufacturer of a 2nd spring would also need to take that into the equation.

With the stopper rod it does nothing but let the CCT operate as Mr Honda intended, that is until a spring failure. Then (no doubt you realise) it stops the CCT plunger from fully retracting which would cause serious engine damage. The Stopper Mod does however have to be carried out correctly for it to be effective as Al points out.

The Stopper Mod does work, as I have 1st hand proof of a spring failure. I was able to ride the bike home after the failure, about 15 miles.

Chris.
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sirch345
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Re: cct stopper mod

Post by sirch345 »

AMCQ46 wrote: Fri Feb 12, 2021 12:27 pm
tastethefloor wrote: Fri Feb 12, 2021 10:00 am the idea would be to insert a 15mm spring powerful and strong enough to push on the chain "skate" once the mainspring breaks
my main worry is that during normal operation, you now have double the spring force inside the auto CCT compared to it original design, and that could lead to it not tensioning as intended by Honda.
Another good point Al,

Chris.
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tastethefloor
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Re: cct stopper mod

Post by tastethefloor »

sirch345 wrote: Fri Feb 12, 2021 8:33 pm Hi TTF, an interesting thought.

As Al (AMcQ46) points out each bike is different in the exact length of the stopper rod (iron cylinder as you call it) required. I think the reason of varying lengths could be down to various stages of the cam chains life, as it must stretch to a degree as the miles of the bike increase, plus some engines are more abused than others. So that would mean your 2nd spring would have to be giving the exact same pressure being applied by the original spring. Not some thing to be achieved easily would be my thoughts, as the original OEM CCT's do self adjust as the rev's rise and fall. The manufacturer of a 2nd spring would also need to take that into the equation.

With the stopper rod it does nothing but let the CCT operate as Mr Honda intended, that is until a spring failure. Then (no doubt you realise) it stops the CCT plunger from fully retracting which would cause serious engine damage. The Stopper Mod does however have to be carried out correctly for it to be effective as Al points out.

The Stopper Mod does work, as I have 1st hand proof of a spring failure. I was able to ride the bike home after the failure, about 15 miles.

Chris.
I never understand if the original cct really self adjust with rpm rise and fall...
if this is true having a manual cct is not good for the engine
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sirch345
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Re: cct stopper mod

Post by sirch345 »

tastethefloor wrote: Sat Feb 13, 2021 1:40 am
sirch345 wrote: Fri Feb 12, 2021 8:33 pm Hi TTF, an interesting thought.

As Al (AMcQ46) points out each bike is different in the exact length of the stopper rod (iron cylinder as you call it) required. I think the reason of varying lengths could be down to various stages of the cam chains life, as it must stretch to a degree as the miles of the bike increase, plus some engines are more abused than others. So that would mean your 2nd spring would have to be giving the exact same pressure being applied by the original spring. Not some thing to be achieved easily would be my thoughts, as the original OEM CCT's do self adjust as the rev's rise and fall. The manufacturer of a 2nd spring would also need to take that into the equation.

With the stopper rod it does nothing but let the CCT operate as Mr Honda intended, that is until a spring failure. Then (no doubt you realise) it stops the CCT plunger from fully retracting which would cause serious engine damage. The Stopper Mod does however have to be carried out correctly for it to be effective as Al points out.

The Stopper Mod does work, as I have 1st hand proof of a spring failure. I was able to ride the bike home after the failure, about 15 miles.

Chris.
I never understand if the original cct really self adjust with rpm rise and fall...
if this is true having a manual cct is not good for the engine
I modified a standard (OEM) CCT to show me was was happening on the inside to the outside, when the CCT was working. I needed to know how much the worm/screw turned. From memory (although I have written this up on here before in another thread) the front CCT worm turns approximately 1/4 of one full turn, whereas the rear CCT worm turns approximately 1/2 of one full turn. The rotation of the front CCT worm decreased the cam chain tension, but the rear worm CCT rotation increased the cam chain tension as the rpm's got higher.

That's why some like the idea of the Stopper Mod instead of Manual CCT's. With Manual CCT's you are looking for a medium setting to what is achieved with the standard (OEM) CCT's.

The choice is yours :wink:

Chris.
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