Rear brake, why is it there?

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8541Hawk
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Rear brake, why is it there?

Post by 8541Hawk »

This is an easy topic and a hard one all rolled together.... also let me add that the written word is not my strongest form of communication but I'll give it a go. I'll will also try to keep it pretty basic in this first post.
If more detail is needed we can add that later.

So do I use my rear brake?? As we all like pics....this one isn't that good but yeah I use them from time to time.....
Image

The most common thing I hear about the rear brake is " I could take it off and never know it was gone" which actually is true around 90% of the time.
Like I referred to it in another thread, the rear brake is kind of like a "special" tool, one that lives in the toolbox and rarely sees the light of day but when you need it, at times nothing else will do.

I'll break this up into 3 sections, first the most common use of the rear brake. Then some of the "advanced" times when it should or can be used and finally set up

The most common place to use the rear brake is in two up riding. The reason for this is by adding weight to the rear of the bike ( so this applies to a bike loaded down for a weekend trip also) you have not only made the bike heavier, you have also moved the CG to the rear. Also it just tends to give a smoother ride to your passenger with less chance of the "head banging" especially if they are new to riding pillion.-

Which now shifts the weight bias to the rear. This will become even more apparent if you are going uphill or are on a slick surface. So in many cases, while two up or heavily loaded, the rear brake can have as much or more stopping power than the front.

So while two up I try to teach the old method of 60% front -40% rear at all times but always be ready to shift those percentages as traction allows. The one thing I suggest different than some of the old way of teaching is to apply the rear first and then the front. This is to first start transferring weight to the front end before you start braking with it.

This will also get you used to the "feel" of the rear brake which will be important for the next couple of uses.



These next ones are what I call "Advanced" uses of the rear brake. I call them that because done wrong you can\will crash. As this is for everyone, in case you never heard it or don't know...... On a motorbike, loose the front end = low side...... Loose the rear end = high side. This isn't 100% true but close enough to take it to heart as these are things, that done wrong, can cause you to loose the rear.

That is why it is a "special" tool, just like you wouldn't use your digital calipers to loosen a bolt, there is a time and place for it.

With that here we go.

This is where I use my rear the most, tightening you line in a corner.
Picture yourself going down the road and rolling the bike into a corner. Now you see something in your line you want to avoid and the easiest way around it would be to turn a bit tighter.
You could shift your body weight. You also could add a bit of counter steering but both of these have the downside of it is very easy to unsettle the chassis by moving weight around while leaned over..... so the answer move your toe over and drag a touch of rear brake. You line will tighten instantly with the least amount of chassis movement.

This is also a good thing to know if you get into a corner too hot and can't lean anymore but still need to turn tighter.

You will need to work up to this and the best way to get your first "feel" of it is either on an empty clean road or an open car park.
It is usually easier trying in a left hand turn first, as it keeps your braking foot on the high side.

With a comfortable lean angle (it doesn't have to be tight, just leaned over a bit) and feed in a little rear brake. You will feel your turn tighten instantly.

What you need to learn is the "feel" of the rear brake and develop the muscle memory to use it. Kind of like you needed to learn the "feel" of your front brakes before the first time you really used them....or at least you should have. :wink:

Another place the rear can save you is if the chassis gets unsettled. The best example I can give you is we have all seen races where someone comes out of a corner a little too hard and you see the bike try to tie itself into a knot.....then just straighten out and continue on its way. Well we know the chopping the throttle usually just makes things worse in these situations and the bike only slowed slightly, so what happened?

In most cases a touch of rear brake is all that is needed and the bike settles right down. This is advanced as to do it right it has to be almost instinctual, so you have to be used to using the rear brake and you also need the muscle memory to use it correctly but it really can save your ass..... just like a touch of rear brake can bring the front end back down if you lofted the wheelie a bit too high.....





Which then leads to set up. The most common issue here, that I hear, is there is no feel in the rear or it just locks up.
I was right there with you when I decided I was really going to learn how to use the rear brake around 10-11 years ago.

I was actually kind of frustrated and could not figure out why I was having such a hard time with it.

How does this have anything to do with set up you ask?

Well I was sitting there looking at the bike, thinking I can walk and chew gum at the same time....why can't I do this?
I start thinking is it my chassis set up and going down a couple different paths, when the little light turned on.....

So Spanky...... you are locking up the rear wheel everything you try to use the brake...so why are you running a high bite HH pad?

Well I don't know Wally...... :oops:

Went down and picked up an organic GG rear pad set and it's been all good. I can still lock the rear wheel but it takes effort and transforms the rear brake into something you can use....it really is that easy :wink:

Before you ask which rear pad I am using... I really don't remember. The fronts I will only use one kind....maybe another good topic...... but the rear any organic pad will work (as long as it is a name brand..... never go "cheap" when it come to brakes IMHO)

Think that is it for now.....
Last edited by 8541Hawk on Fri May 31, 2013 7:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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VTRDark
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Re: Rear brake, why is it there?

Post by VTRDark »

I actually use my rear brake a heck of a lot as I mostly ride in heavy town traffic. As long as I'm not racing around and am just cruising slowly through traffic I like to use my rear brake to slow down to a stop at lights. I will start gradually slowing from a distance, sometimes sitting upright and stretching my back, and if I'm lucky by the time I get to the lights they are changing and I don't need to stop. It's also cheaper to replace the one set of pads rather than overuse the fronts. I save them for when I really need some heavy braking or when I'm literally coming to a stop. I also use the rear on the bends, a little dab here and there. Very rarely will I use the front in a bend.

(:-})
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8541Hawk
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Re: Rear brake, why is it there?

Post by 8541Hawk »

cybercarl wrote:I actually use my rear brake a heck of a lot as I mostly ride in heavy town traffic. As long as I'm not racing around and am just cruising slowly through traffic I like to use my rear brake to slow down to a stop at lights. I will start gradually slowing from a distance, sometimes sitting upright and stretching my back, and if I'm lucky by the time I get to the lights they are changing and I don't need to stop. It's also cheaper to replace the one set of pads rather than overuse the fronts. I save them for when I really need some heavy braking or when I'm literally coming to a stop. I also use the rear on the bends, a little dab here and there. Very rarely will I use the front in a bend.

(:-})
That is a fine use of the rear brake and a good way to get used to using it.

Though like I said, these are things that work for me..... it doesn't mean it will work for you as riding style has a lot to do with it.
That is why I refer to it as a "Soft Science"..... in the end you need to find what works for you.

Just like the front brakes.... I trail brake to the apex of every corner. It can be and usually is just a very slight pressure but it's there and if I need brakes they are instant because of it.
Plus for me, I get better front end "feel"
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lumpyv
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Re: Rear brake, why is it there?

Post by lumpyv »

you don't do too bad with the written word ! :thumbup: :thumbup:

I think if you haven't got a rear brake you will probably fail the MOT test. 8)

what do you have in the states in respect of a yearly? vehicle test ??
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8541Hawk
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Re: Rear brake, why is it there?

Post by 8541Hawk »

lumpyv wrote:you don't do too bad with the written word ! :thumbup: :thumbup:

I think if you haven't got a rear brake you will probably fail the MOT test. 8)

what do you have in the states in respect of a yearly? vehicle test ??
The inspection can vary from state to state...where I am at there is no inspection ever, even on transfer to another owner.
This is good and bad..... just like there are no license restrictions here.

Yes you can go down and get your learners permit (not even a full license) and go down and buy the liter bike of your choice..... :eek2
The only "restriction" is you can't ride at night, no passengers, you can't ride on the freeway....and that's it.

Yes you do see a lot of carnage around here if you go to where the squids hang out.....
Last edited by 8541Hawk on Fri May 31, 2013 7:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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lumpyv
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Re: Rear brake, why is it there?

Post by lumpyv »

8541Hawk wrote:
lumpyv wrote:you don't do too bad with the written word ! :thumbup: :thumbup:

I think if you haven't got a rear brake you will probably fail the MOT test. 8)

what do you have in the states in respect of a yearly? vehicle test ??
The inspection can vary from state to state...where I am at there is no inspection ever, even on transfer to another owner.
This is good and bad..... just like there are no license restrictions here.

Yes you can go down and get your learners permit (not even a full license) and go down and by the liter bike of your choice..... :eek2
The only "restriction" is you can't ride at night, no passengers, you can't ride on the freeway....and that's it.

Yes you do see a lot of carnage around here if you go to where the squids hang out.....

say what ??

no wonder all those people keep falling off on that bend on youtube :roll: :roll:
trusting everybody to maintain their bikes properly is a bit optimistic I think!
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benny hedges
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Re: Rear brake, why is it there?

Post by benny hedges »

rear brake is for holding down wheelies and doing front wheel burn-outs. :mrgreen:
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Re: Rear brake, why is it there?

Post by alternative_vtr »

I use mine a lot, i trail it in corners sometimes, I use it to stabilise the bike, I use my rear brake to assist the front as well.
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8541Hawk
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Re: Rear brake, why is it there?

Post by 8541Hawk »

lumpyv wrote:
say what ??
no wonder all those people keep falling off on that bend on youtube :roll: :roll:
It really is the reason to tell the truth...it is not a hard corner but back when I was a kid..... yeah back in the day of playing fetch with my pet dinosaur and the bikes had stone wheels....lol
We used to call it "Squids Leap"...and yes we did hang out there and watch :twisted:

Only time it is safe now is early in the morning as the local squids sleep in..... :thumbup:
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Re: Rear brake, why is it there?

Post by Redthunder »

I use mine slow manouevering and in town, with engine braking. Stops nose dive from front forks and therefore bike more stable.

Also to help the bike to hold a better line in some corners.

I treat a rear brake as an aide to steadying the bike, never to actually stop at least not from any speed above 15 mph.
There are 2 bigger discs up front for a reason..
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Re: Rear brake, why is it there?

Post by AMCQ46 »

Redthunder wrote:I use mine slow manouevering and in town, with engine braking. Stops nose dive from front forks and therefore bike more stable.

Also to help the bike to hold a better line in some corners.

I treat a rear brake as an aide to steadying the bike, never to actually stop at least not from any speed above 15 mph.
There are 2 bigger discs up front for a reason..
same here, its the trials rider habit for controlling the bike at low speed..........plus the wheelies bit from Benny
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lloydie
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Re: Rear brake, why is it there?

Post by lloydie »

Good write up again with plenty of food for thought and I will be giving it a go later (never to old to learn ) shut up virt !
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Re: Rear brake, why is it there?

Post by Virt »

I didn't say anything... :D
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adyf
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Re: Rear brake, why is it there?

Post by adyf »

Al is bang on ,trailing rear brake is a dirt bike trick used to control descents etc ,i think doing à bit of off roading helps on the road in lots of ways,I use the rear to load the suspension into bends or drop into a different line if I've gone in a bit to hot.
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seb421
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Re: Rear brake, why is it there?

Post by seb421 »

I use my rear a lot but I think this comes from both motocross and all year all weather riding where the rear break becomes more effective on slippy roads where the front applied would cause it to break traction
I balance my breaking across the front and rear and drag a bit of rear if I've over cooked it an come into a corner a bit to hot
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