Hopefully soon to be a VTR owner in Holland

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AMCQ46
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Re: Hopefully soon to be a VTR owner in Holland

Post by AMCQ46 »

congratulations on getting teh bike Ian :thumbup:

before doing the forks, I would order some new springs for your weight, and fit them and new oil at the same time as the seal. there should be details in the workshop knowledgebase, and also some info on other mods you can do to the taper when you are in there. https://www.vtr1000.org/phpBB3/viewtopi ... 31&t=29710

when I am doing the forks, I use an ABBA stand and then just a scissor jack under the sump to take the weight off the front wheel.

before you jack the bike up, slacken all the main bolts so you dont risk it all toppling over
the front spindle & pinch bolts, the caliper mounts, the lower triple clamp, take the bars off (note the circlip on the fork), and also slacken the top caps for the forks..... then lift the front up.

then calipers off, wheel out, mudguard off, undo the top triple clamp and pull out the forks.

remove the top cap which also has the damper adjuster rod & taper, drain the oil out, then remove the dust seal and the protector lip thingy. then you should see the circlip above the seal.

then look at the bottom of teh fork leg and you will see a recessed Allen bolt, you need to remove this so the damper body can come out. once that is undone, holding each end, you compress the fork and pull them apart as fast as you can, so you are using the fork leg as a slide hammer to bring the seal and the slider bushes out.
AMcQ
IanB
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Re: Hopefully soon to be a VTR owner in Holland

Post by IanB »

Ah, thanks Tony - I hadn't seen those before, only the paddock stands for the rear end. Looks like a simple bit of fabwork with some square tube, nice.

Yes, I can see how pulling the slider tube sharply downwards would dislodge the seal. I think there must be a tension rod inside the fork that needs freeing off first, otherwise the seal would get hit each time the forks fully extend.

I just ordered a used top yoke. This will get modified so that I can fit a set of Renthal bars - the present clip-ons are too low and too far forward for me; wrist ache, hand numbness and neck ache (getting old...) A move upwards and backwards will help a lot. Not sure yet what will need extending - clutch & brake hydraulic lines maybe. Good excuse to swap to stainless braided. As far as I can see, the bike is 100% stock - original exhausts etc. If the forks are coming off and the top yoke too, it'll be a good time to fit tapered rollers in the headstock.
Ian
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sirch345
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Re: Hopefully soon to be a VTR owner in Holland

Post by sirch345 »

IanB wrote: Tue Jul 13, 2021 10:54 am Just on first impressions of the bike; it has more power than I'm ever likely to want, lots of torque across the entire range. Makes overtaking a breeze.

I was a bit surprise about the steering - the bike seems to need some persuasion to corner. Is this why people drop the yokes down the forks, to make the castor angle steeper? If so, I can see why.
I expect your fork leg with the seal gone isn't helping in cornering. Another thing that can play a fairly big part on these bikes is tyre pressures. You may find yours needs some air in them. Standard is 36psi Front & 42psi Rear.
A spacer under your rear shock top mount will quicken up the steering if you're looking for more.
IanB wrote: Tue Jul 13, 2021 10:54 am Front brakes are ok - they take more force on the lever than I'd expected, but I'm sure it's simply a matter of hydraulic advantage, not of the brake discs & calipers not being up to it.
Depending on when the front brake calipers were last serviced, you may find yours could benefit from just that. When you have the calipers off you can check to see how free the pistons are. You can also see how well the front wheel spins before you remove them to do the fork seals, once the front wheel is raised up off the ground. Apply the front brake, release, then give the wheel a spin by hand.
IanB wrote: Tue Jul 13, 2021 4:17 pm Ah, thanks Tony - I hadn't seen those before, only the paddock stands for the rear end. Looks like a simple bit of fabwork with some square tube, nice.

Yes, I can see how pulling the slider tube sharply downwards would dislodge the seal. I think there must be a tension rod inside the fork that needs freeing off first, otherwise the seal would get hit each time the forks fully extend.

I just ordered a used top yoke. This will get modified so that I can fit a set of Renthal bars - the present clip-ons are too low and too far forward for me; wrist ache, hand numbness and neck ache (getting old...) A move upwards and backwards will help a lot. Not sure yet what will need extending - clutch & brake hydraulic lines maybe. Good excuse to swap to stainless braided. As far as I can see, the bike is 100% stock - original exhausts etc. If the forks are coming off and the top yoke too, it'll be a good time to fit tapered rollers in the headstock.
Here's my Ultra Low Renthal handlebar conversion in this link below (if you haven't already seen it of course :) )

https://www.vtr1000.org/phpBB3/viewtopi ... 31&t=41099

Chris.
A closed mouth gathers no foot. :thumbup:
IanB
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Re: Hopefully soon to be a VTR owner in Holland

Post by IanB »

Hi Chris,

Thanks for posting the details of your bar conversion, I'm planning something very similar. I'll also reinforce beneath the yoke top face with plates, which I'll probably epoxy in place and then bolt all the way through.

I'll be machining my own bar clamps from alloy bar, probably starting out with a 25mm x 50mm cross section. As I'm making them from scratch, I'll go for the "fat bars" with a 28.2mm diameter centre section. The standard 22.2mm has always looked too weedy to me. The clamps will be a permanent fit to the yoke, as they'll also be pinned & epoxied in place - hence me buying a second top yoke.

Good info on the hydraulic lines and extending the horn cable, thanks. A lot will be fit & feel when it's in place, depending on what offset bars I go for. The plan is to make the bars out of wooden dowel, see what feels right and then get the nearest commercially available bars.

I'm still hating the idea of cutting the fairing, but I'll get over it. When I cut it, am I left with a white fibreglass edge, or is it coloured all the way through? If it's not, then I'll touch the paint up. I found some good before & after photos on how the fairing changes here: https://www.superhawkforum.com/forums/m ... post312313

I guess you cut your fairing; did you remove it from the bike, or do it in situ?
Ian
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sirch345
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Re: Hopefully soon to be a VTR owner in Holland

Post by sirch345 »

IanB wrote: Wed Jul 14, 2021 10:51 am Hi Chris,

Thanks for posting the details of your bar conversion, I'm planning something very similar. I'll also reinforce beneath the yoke top face with plates, which I'll probably epoxy in place and then bolt all the way through.

I'll be machining my own bar clamps from alloy bar, probably starting out with a 25mm x 50mm cross section. As I'm making them from scratch, I'll go for the "fat bars" with a 28.2mm diameter centre section. The standard 22.2mm has always looked too weedy to me. The clamps will be a permanent fit to the yoke, as they'll also be pinned & epoxied in place - hence me buying a second top yoke.

Good info on the hydraulic lines and extending the horn cable, thanks. A lot will be fit & feel when it's in place, depending on what offset bars I go for. The plan is to make the bars out of wooden dowel, see what feels right and then get the nearest commercially available bars.

I'm still hating the idea of cutting the fairing, but I'll get over it. When I cut it, am I left with a white fibreglass edge, or is it coloured all the way through? If it's not, then I'll touch the paint up. I found some good before & after photos on how the fairing changes here: https://www.superhawkforum.com/forums/m ... post312313

I guess you cut your fairing; did you remove it from the bike, or do it in situ?
Hi Ian, I got away without trimming the fairing due to the Ultra Low Renthal Handlebars and the 3mm thick steering stops, although it was only meant to be a temporary measure, give me time to make sure I was happy with the bar conversion first :D
I like the idea of using "Fat Bars", they should look good and will be stronger I'm guessing.

What type of epoxy resin are you going to use :?:

Good find those photo's of the trimmed fairing :thumbup:

Chris.
A closed mouth gathers no foot. :thumbup:
IanB
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Re: Hopefully soon to be a VTR owner in Holland

Post by IanB »

Hi Chris,

Ah yes, I saw your photo of the fairing - indeed, no trimming, well done. Having seen those before & after pics of the yellow one, I'm tempted to say that a trimmed fairing looks even better than stock. It's just my aversion to cutting into a pristine fairing that's nagging me. Mine is also yellow, with a black screen - it looks wicked!

Type of epoxy; I'm not too worried about it, it won't be providing any strength to the final structure. It'll be more there to hold parts in place during assembly and fill any remaining gaps where water might get in. I'll finish it with a filler to give fillets for cosmetic appearance - I want the end product to look as stock as possible. All of the mechanical strength will come from four M10 S/S countersunk cap screws and four 5mm roll pins, all through the stiffening plates, yokes and up into the handlebar clamps. I've always had success with epoxy from West systems, boat / yacht shops stock it. I might add a bit of filler to the epoxy to stop it all running out. I usually use heat lamps to improve the bond and get it to set quicker.

I have a set of tapered rollers and new seals on the way - they'll get done at the same time.
Ian
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AMCQ46
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Re: Hopefully soon to be a VTR owner in Holland

Post by AMCQ46 »

i also modified a standard yoke and was surprised how thin the material is and in the end I had my workshop leader weld a reinforcing plate inside the ribbing in the underside.

2 other bits of advice, if you havent already spotted them in the other threads.
1) you need the centerline of the bars to sit above the steering stem to ensure they miss the fork legs which come up a fair distance through the yokes, and this requires you to either add extra material to the rear section of the top yoke, or to make your bar clamps angle backwards. (with fat bars you will need to be a bit behind teh stem CL to cope with the bigger diameter.
I have seen lots of people drill the yoke where there is material, and then end up with the bars too far forwards, and then the have to lower he forks through the yokes to clear the bars....... so they have screwed the geometry and the bike will turn in like a cruiser.

2) keep your bar clamps as low rise as possible, and that combined with ultra low bend renthals will be how you minimise the material removed from the fairing.

good luck
AMcQ
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sirch345
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Re: Hopefully soon to be a VTR owner in Holland

Post by sirch345 »

IanB wrote: Thu Jul 15, 2021 6:45 am Hi Chris,

Ah yes, I saw your photo of the fairing - indeed, no trimming, well done. Having seen those before & after pics of the yellow one, I'm tempted to say that a trimmed fairing looks even better than stock. It's just my aversion to cutting into a pristine fairing that's nagging me. Mine is also yellow, with a black screen - it looks wicked!

Type of epoxy; I'm not too worried about it, it won't be providing any strength to the final structure. It'll be more there to hold parts in place during assembly and fill any remaining gaps where water might get in. I'll finish it with a filler to give fillets for cosmetic appearance - I want the end product to look as stock as possible. All of the mechanical strength will come from four M10 S/S countersunk cap screws and four 5mm roll pins, all through the stiffening plates, yokes and up into the handlebar clamps. I've always had success with epoxy from West systems, boat / yacht shops stock it. I might add a bit of filler to the epoxy to stop it all running out. I usually use heat lamps to improve the bond and get it to set quicker.

I have a set of tapered rollers and new seals on the way - they'll get done at the same time.
Hi Ian, I think the new lines of the fairing after cutting the ears off suits the handlebar modification better, the only thing I don't like is you lose that moulded in bead that is on the edges of the fairing.

Thanks for the info on the epoxy resin. I think pinning the bar clamps in place is a good move, one that I will be doing at some point.

Taper roller head bearing are the way to go IMHO.

Al (AMCQ46) was one of the members who convinced me to do the Ultra Low Renthal handlebar conversion 8)

Chris.
A closed mouth gathers no foot. :thumbup:
IanB
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Re: Hopefully soon to be a VTR owner in Holland

Post by IanB »

Hi Chris,

It's exactly that nice moulded in edge that I would like to keep! If a respray was on the cards, then it could be bonded back in place after the cut (just remove a pie wedge shape). But that entails a lot more work & expense, and new stickers, and I want to try to avoid that.

My intention is to angle the new risers backwards at about 45 degrees. Looking at the yoke, I should be able to get the front edge of the bard vertically above the back edge of the steering tube, maybe even a shade further backwards. I'll keep it all just low enough to clear the tank, no higher.

Good to hear about the thickness of the web, it just confirms the need for load spreading plates. When I drill it, I'll measure the thickness. I was going to mill 2 shallow trenches into the top face to give sideways location to the risers; I'll skip that if the web is too thin.

Once the position of the handlebar clamps are established, I'll make a set of bars from wooden dowel, see what feels right and also what clears, what doesn't. If the motorcycling gods are smiling in me, there'll be an off the shelf set of bars close enough. If not, mmm, I might be looking at bending some up from scratch and sleeving the centre up to 28.6mm diameter.

The used top yoke arrived today (grubby, but it's fine), looking for some 25mm x 50mm alloy bar right now; should be able to source it locally, might need to get it bandsawed out of a sheet.
Ian
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Re: Hopefully soon to be a VTR owner in Holland

Post by sirch345 »

Hi Ian, Good luck with your plans, you'll have to start a thread with some photo's as you go in the "Pimp Your Ride" section :D
Using dowel in your mock-up for handlebar options is new to me (although I am a Carpenter). When I was trying to workout which bars I wanted I used 22mm copper pipe, as that is fairly easy to bend with a pipe-bender and fitted my bar clamps.

"Fat Bars" must work as you can buy aftermarket top yoke conversions that give you the option of "Fat Bars" or standard.

Chris.
A closed mouth gathers no foot. :thumbup:
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