CCTs from another angle....

V-Thump · Post by **V-Thump** » Fri May 11, 2007 2:32 pm

Hello esteemed Stormers how many of you havn't had any CCTs issues and still give the bike a hard time?? I've had my storm 1yr next week and have used it daily to commute for an hour each way into Central London and back out. This is the kind of abuse that i'm unwilling to subject my car too but the bike takes it gladly. Since joining the forumn a year ago I've tried my upmost to stop worrying about the engine blowing up but can't seem to get the closure! I'm interested to know if there are people out there that chase the red line on the throttle and then chase the high revs back down on the overun for that sweet rumble and have never had a CCT issue from one year to the next? Some sources reckon that only about 5% of VTRs have had engine failure. When I give the bike some stick I end up getting this guilty feeling that i'm doing something wrong and may cause it too blow up!! clearly a CBR600RR or a blade rider doesn't suffer such pangs of guilt!! I guess in sumation I think it would be great for people to share some good perspectives on the bikes strengh and realiability.

Fireman on a Storm · Post by **Fireman on a Storm** » Fri May 11, 2007 4:25 pm

I just ride it and nail it when ever I feel like it. What a great saound on the over run

LotusSevenMan · Post by **LotusSevenMan** » Fri May 11, 2007 6:09 pm

Having done a fair bit of research on this subject along with fellow forum member (Sirch) we have a theory as to why often the new CCT's when fitted fail quicker miles-wise than originals.
I'll explain.
Bikes on the production line were having CCT's fitted to them from straight-out-of-the-box so they end up sitting in situ/operational position at about half the available travel.
Replacement ones come in a Honda in a sealed bag with a little 'key' in the end ready to fit. The thing is they could have been in a container on board ship/storage depot etc for anything from three months to perhaps a year when you purchase them. Fine if the CCT was stored in its relaxed spring state ready to be 'wound back' with the supplied key when fitting.
This is not the case though. They arrive fully tensioned ie. wound up twice the normal operating range. Result (IOHO) is that the spring suffers unduly from stretch/stress leading to earlier failure that when factory fitted from new.
We all know why the front (middle of the 'V') CCT fails first normally so I won't go on about it here.

KarlosVTR · Post by **KarlosVTR** » Sat May 12, 2007 8:56 am

do what i did and stick a long bolt up its ass with a locknut

semi automatic tensioner then

cant fail

Wicky · Post by **Wicky** » Sat May 12, 2007 8:25 pm

My front cylinder CCT went catastrophically in Feb after 33,000 miles just as I was doing a steady 30mph. Mechanic asked if it had been rattling beforehand which it wasn't as I kept the standard can on over winter due to MOT and neighbours baby, so thankfully heard it suddenly fail, and pulled up pronto, but still it needed a new head (ebay) and Â£500 to fix.

3 months later it's a joy to back blasting about with the micron race cans at full chat. Apart from that and a corroded starter motor* from the inside out, the VTR has been solid.

*Religously grease up under the rubber boot to keep corrosion out.

VeetyR · Post by **VeetyR** » Fri Jun 01, 2007 8:42 am

I tend too brrraaammmm brrrraaaammm.....booom booomm bang booom booom everywhere i go on my storm.......I have had done to mine what karlos has had done to his........the mechanic that did it swears by the mod.....I aint worrying no more....eff it.

Post by **sirch345** » Fri Jun 01, 2007 10:38 am

I don't wish to alarm you guy's, but screwing a standard 6mm bolt up the rear of the CCT with a lock nut is not going to do very much, apart from trying to push the whole CCT assembley apart

Chris.

KarlosVTR · Post by **KarlosVTR** » Fri Jun 01, 2007 11:42 am

if you understood exactly how the stupid shite cct is supposed to work then it will take out the play and then proceed to try to push the metal ring which holds it together off.

ive experimented with the little scroaty things and have found that its not a good idea to push anything in to it to take out any play.

if it has play, buy a new one

Stormin Ben · Post by **Stormin Ben** » Fri Jun 01, 2007 4:07 pm

But surely the problem arises when the spring breaks and the plunger is allowed to unwind/ unscrew out until it is no longer tensioning the cam-chain
Surely if you screw a bolt in until it contacts the back of the plunger and then turn it out by say 1/2 a turn you will be limiting the amount the plunger can retract

Therefore if the spring does break you will hear the slightly noisier camchain without hearing the terminally loose, skipping teeth camchain that causes all the expense

Or maybe I'm misunderstanding completely how these things work having not had one apart to look at closely

LotusSevenMan · Post by **LotusSevenMan** » Fri Jun 01, 2007 5:42 pm

Ben.

You are correct........................ right up to the part where you're wrong!!

By this I mean that yes you need to stop the lower section that bears on the cam tensioner pad from retracting which can only be achieved by stopping the top section with it's internal thread turning. If you take one apart you'll see that just having a bolt doesn't stop the top section rotating and allowing the lower part to retract up with all the known problems that follow.
So, a bolt alone is no good!!!!
Tony W's mod of a bolt with a screwdriver type end to engage in the slot at the top is a better bet. It stops the tensioner from failing but if too tight stops it auto adjusting too. That one (like APE) is the best bet if carefully set up.

Post by **sirch345** » Fri Jun 01, 2007 7:19 pm

KarlosVTR wrote:if you understood exactly how the stupid shite cct is supposed to work then it will take out the play and then proceed to try to push the metal ring which holds it together off.

ive experimented with the little scroaty things and have found that its not a good idea to push anything in to it to take out any play.

if it has play, buy a new one

If you understood exactly how the CCT's operate then you wouldn't have been posting posts about how by screwing a bolt up the rear of the CCT is a good idea in the first place

IMO I think you'll find that the play (end float) is there for a reason, it helps the CCT to automatically adjust itself when it's working.

I've spent hours upon hours (sad I know) studying how these CCT's operate when they're working on the bike, before posting about my modification, which IMO is the better option, as it allows the tensioners to self adjust just as Mr Honda intended, but it stops the CCT backing off enough to allow further damage if the spring should break

Chris.

LotusSevenMan · Post by **LotusSevenMan** » Fri Jun 01, 2007 7:50 pm

Chris (Sirch) is right that his mod is the best I've seen too. It takes a little more mechanical understanding to actually fit it correctly and as we are right back at 'nursery slopes' on this subject at the moment I thought best not to mention it. Advanced users should see it!!!!
I'm, sure Chris will post that link!!!

LSM

KarlosVTR · Post by **KarlosVTR** » Sat Jun 02, 2007 10:01 pm

look, for wombles sakes.

the slack to the degree that makes the chain rattle but exhamining the spring reveals no problems, certain bits are worn.

i have 2 brand new ccts that came in a box of bits. neither of them have the sensational play my old knackered one had.

there is no quick fix, no intermediate way of improving them

buy a solid ape type adjuster for peace of mind or a new one from honda if it suits you

a firestorm is awesome its the ccts that have almost brought my views of it to the undeserved title as a piece of shite