Another year, another starter motor....

[Stevo Kifaru]

My biggest consumable on my bike seems to be starter motors, I think this one has lasted two years. It's getting so I recognise the symptoms straight away now. It must be all the salt & sh1t that gets flung at it during these Autumn/Winter months. I live out in the middle of the countryside & Warwickshire/Rugby council seem to grit at any drop in temperature. Is there really only Vaseline under the rubber boot as a defence, has anyone came up with a better solution, like a carbon shield or something?

[Wicky]

What's gone wrong on the starter motor? Has the terminal nut/bolt corroded? Or has corrosion got into the starter motor past o'rings & fibre washers? what condition is the rubber hood in?

How regulary are you applying vasaline under the rubber hood? I apply it everytime I wash the bike and more so in winter. So far after 30,000 odd miles sice I last had to replace the starter, there's no sign of corrosion.

Maybe try Permatex Dielectric Electrical Grease and see how that fares.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Permatex-2205 ... SwdsFUN74V

[ConTRo13R]

As the bolt hood is made of rubber I use red rubber grease. That stuff is really good at resisting water.

[Stevo Kifaru]

So I've been procrastinating all morning. Motorbike has exhibited signs all week of it needing the starter motor replacing, I have a spare one sat here anyway from the last time it gave up so eventually I got all the tools together to go out & do it. Thought I'd give the starter a prod just to see if it was still bolloxed. Started first time. butt, but happy in equal measure. Still not sure what is the problem then.

[Wicky]

Check that your battery is in tip-top condition and all connections are clean & tight and the charging system is working well.

[agentpineapple]

could be a number of things, r/r, battery, loose connection somewhere. a good starter motor should last a long time, well in excess of 10yrs, as long as the rubber boot has grease under it to protect the the connection from corroding.
i'd say your issue isn't the starter motor mate. i hope you can sort it out

[Stevo Kifaru]

Battery is definitely ok, had it on trickle charge over the weekend. When I put it on charge it went to maintain cycle straight away.
My problem could be I work nights, so trying to start it in the cold all the time cannot be helping

[Wicky]

Battery is definitely ok, had it on trickle charge over the weekend

Doesn't necessarily mean the battery is okay

http://www.totalmotorcycle.com/maintenance/battery.htm

The Battery

THE BASICS

First things first. A 12-volt battery is not a 12-volt battery. Twelve volts is just a nominal, convenient term used to distinguish one battery from another. A fully-charged 12-volt battery, allowed to "rest" for a few hours (or days) with no load being drawn from it (or charge going to it), will balance out its charge and measure about 12.6 volts between terminals.

When a battery reads only 12 volts under the above conditions, it's almost fully depleted. Actually, if a battery's resting voltage is only 12.0 to 12.1 it means only 20 to 25% of its useful energy remains. It's either a goner or it has been deep cycled, and a battery can only be deep-cycled a limited number of times before it is indeed dead.

12-volt batteries supply useful energy only through a limited range -- from over 14 volts (when fully charged and unrested) down to 10.5 volts in use/under load (when lights dim, your motorcycle is hard to start). No 12-volt battery will remain at over 14 volts for more than seconds unless it's being charged. The lowest limit is 10.5 volts (used in testing) and obviously unsatisfactory in practical use.

[Stevo Kifaru]

What's been happening is, when I try to start it it's very lethargic, as if the battery is flat. Then I press it a few more times and it starts to speed up, not slow down as a dead battery would, until it eventually fires. Everytime I've had symptoms like these I checked the battery & the reg rec, even replacing both of them twice & sadly each time it has turned out to be the starter. I think I'm on my 4th or 5th one now?

Like I said I live out in the country side and the farmers have been leaving sh1t & mud all over the roads, the other night I got to work & my boots and trousers looked like I'd been motocrossing. That & the grit just keep getting flung onto the starter, I clean it every night I get home and weekly check the vaseline, the nut & contacts seem to be in good order.

Just don't know and I've lost my multimeter at the moment to check everything

[TheGingerBeardMan]

One thing to check is the actual Starter Motor Relay (You'll find it by following the Red (positive) connection from your battery).



It may be loose connections, a knackered terminal spade, or a loose fitting one that needs crimped tighter again. Also check the fuses are seated snug.

For you to work your way through many starter motors is indeed highly unusual, and I too don't suspect the starter motor itself.

Check coils, mountings, HT caps, and the Earth cable (black cable bolted to engine casing, below the rear CCT), etc. Check there are no cracks or tears in the cable, and that the HT caps are tight on the cables.

It's also good to check the position of the handlebars when pushing the starter button. Does the motor speed up or slow down at the same time as moving the bars from side to side? This may be an ignition wiring problem, like a stretched wire perhaps, or a frayed almost broken one?

You CAN make a cover for the starter motor from a beer tin, or a 2ltr plastic milk container. Although the milk container is easier to cut and shape.

I've made them for a few bikes in the past (Plastic maggots (CX500s) to name but one species)

Cut the base off the plastic milk container, and also cut the top off. Leave enough length so you can make a flap to bend in the container. You are left with a hollow ''tube'' with the handle still on. Cut a rectangular tab shape at one end, and fold it upwards so you can make 2 holes for the motor bolts to go through. Slide the starter motor inside. A cable tie around the outside middle of the ''shield'' will keep all the winter shite off the thing.

It looks stupid at first glance, but it's strong enough it won't melt too easily, and it's easy replaced if it does. But, being cooled with being sprayed with the road fling/water/crud and the ''air speed'', should see it last a while. Paint it black if the opaque white is too conspicuous!

I ride on Scottish country roads, and same as you, the roads are caked with crap at the moment. Best of luck, and yes, RED grease is better than Vaseline. Vaseline thins out with the heat, and can become watery....red grease sticks like sh1t to a blanket. (I use Silkolenes PRO RG2)

[sirch345]

What's been happening is, when I try to start it it's very lethargic, as if the battery is flat. Then I press it a few more times and it starts to speed up, not slow down as a dead battery would, until it eventually fires. Everytime I've had symptoms like these I checked the battery & the reg rec, even replacing both of them twice & sadly each time it has turned out to be the starter. I think I'm on my 4th or 5th one now?

Like I said I live out in the country side and the farmers have been leaving sh1t & mud all over the roads, the other night I got to work & my boots and trousers looked like I'd been motocrossing. That & the grit just keep getting flung onto the starter, I clean it every night I get home and weekly check the vaseline, the nut & contacts seem to be in good order.

Just don't know and I've lost my multimeter at the moment to check everything

Some very good suggestions so far.

My 2 pence worth would be to find your multi-meter, or buy/borrow another one. You need to first of all see what the bike is charging at the battery terminals. You should be getting between 13.5 and 15.5 volts with the engine running and no lights on.

Seeing as this has been an on going problem over the years, only really showing up when the colder weather is with us (more power needed from the battery to spin the big V twin over now the oil is thicker) I'm wondering if one or two of the coils in the alternator are breaking down If this was the case you would most likely get away with it in the warmer weather.

If it does turn out to be the battery after all, if you've not already get yourself a bigger amp hour one. The standard Firestorm battery is 10amp hour only.

If your journey to work is not that many miles, you could be taking out more power from the battery to start it than the bike is putting back into it

Chris.

[Stevo Kifaru]

Seeing as this has been an on going problem over the years, only really showing up when the colder weather is with us (more power needed from the battery to spin the big V twin over now the oil is thicker) I'm wondering if one or two of the coils in the alternator are breaking down If this was the case you would most likely get away with it in the warmer weather.

If it does turn out to be the battery after all, if you've not already get yourself a bigger amp hour one. The standard Firestorm battery is 10amp hour only.

If your journey to work is not that many miles, you could be taking out more power from the battery to start it than the bike is putting back into it

Chris.

Hasn't always happened in the crap weather, I think, just the last one definitely. We've had the previous starters apart to service them and it was definitely them. First one was seized inside, 2nd - bushes & general deterioration due to water ingress, 3rd - similar to the 1st one.

I've used Motobatts for a good 5 years now, on my 2nd one as I fried one (due to the seized starter )

Do about a 22 mile round trip, 11 miles in 15 minutes each way, 60 mph roads & motorways.

Will check the starter relay and loom tomorrow for a start.

[sirch345]

Hasn't always happened in the crap weather, I think, just the last one definitely. We've had the previous starters apart to service them and it was definitely them. First one was seized inside, 2nd - bushes & general deterioration due to water ingress, 3rd - similar to the 1st one.

I've used Motobatts for a good 5 years now, on my 2nd one as I fried one (due to the seized starter )

Do about a 22 mile round trip, 11 miles in 15 minutes each way, 60 mph roads & motorways.

Will check the starter relay and loom tomorrow for a start.

In which case start with the easiest options first, check the voltage at the battery with a multi-meter as I suggested above,

Chris.

[8541Hawk]

You guys must be in a really tough environment, at least for starters.
My starter is going on 20yrs old..... still using the original that came with the bike (swapped engines but used the original starter)

[Stevo Kifaru]

You guys must be in a really tough environment, at least for starters.
My starter is going on 20yrs old..... still using the original that came with the bike (swapped engines but used the original starter)

My first one lasted about 15 years, but a particularly harsh winter & my inexperience in how to deal with all the sh1t that gets thrown at it (I didn't even know where the starter motor was back then!) because my Local authority are on top of all the gritting whenever it looks like hitting freezing meant it took a beating until it finally seized. Every subsequent starter motor has been second hand, either from a CBR6, a fireblade or even a CB5 (I think?) so unsure of their true age, but probably over 10 years old themselves.
I think I was quoted something crazy like £700 for an OE starter, the VTR ones on ebay are exorbitant too, but I found a site that tells me every bike which that particular starter motor went into, whhich has helped a lot, cheapest I got one for was a fiver, getting quite adept at changing them now, lol.
But I am thinking I am mistaken now, it is the electrical system somehow, just not got any spare time to do real in-depth checking.