VTR Down Under

[NZSpokes]

Question 2; can I run the bike with the airbox off to check the slides opening (thinking that is the reason for the horrid flat spot).

some guys try it

So that would be a no then.

[lloydie]

It'll run on idle but that's it . As soon as you Rev it off the pilots it'll cough and spit

[Twitchy]

Cant say thats the most attractive bike anyway, but not a good result.

Reset the TPS back to 808 ohm and put a standard air filter in. Started with no choke (took 4 or 5 cranks before it kicked though). Gonna take it for a small run tonight to see what its like.

Did some digging on SH forum and seems I will need to lift the needles as mine are 2nd down, most guys are running 3rd or 4th down. As stated yesterday 2 1/8 front & 1 1/2 rear seems a big gap, 2 1/4 seems to be the recommended starting point. Also need to get new plugs to give a fresh indication of whats happening.

I am pretty sure the bike is still quite lean, but it is nice to have it running in the doorway of the shed without the stench of rich exhaust fumes!

[Twitchy]

Ok, took it for a short run and so glad I did. As mentioned earlier, major flat/dead spot/hesitation at 2500-3000 rpm. Pulling out of my street it stalled. Started immediately, had to give it a few good blips, VERY slowly eased the clutch out, riding the clutch like an old granny, got moving. Near my place there is roadworks. 40km zone, behind other cars and I was amazed! 40k's in 2nd at about 2700 ish and not one stutter/surge/hiccup! OMG. The main problem I was having was gone. F@#k yeah!

BUT... the 2500-3000 hesitation is extremely difficult to ride around. Even gearing down for an intersection, crackling out the pipes, then to turn the corner, massive flat spot, and then it takes off like a rocket. From standing start have to really ride the clutch and feather the throttle to get moving, and once it hits that 3k mark, cleans itself out and all is good. Cruising at anywhere around 3k, holding steady it is fine, 1 poofteenth more or less throttle and it mucks around, sometimes big time crackling out the back end, sometimes not.

So my mission for tomorrow is to pull the carbs off, remove mains/emulsion tubes to check blockages etc, maybe remove & check cleanliness of air jet, and try again. So happy to not have it surging constantly, but obviously more problems now. Exhaust note is very different, and I have to say I'm not sure I like it. Very 'flat' sound now, and sounds like a big bore dirt bike or something. Before the note sounded 'fat', bassy even (bassey? lots of bass anyway). Inside the house you could feel the bike idling outside, the bass reverberating through the house (and the neighbours for that matter!). But I'll get used to it. As long it rides well with lots of grunt, all will be well with the world!

[kev64]

Have you seen my settings on my project post, very similar to yours if you read.
My plugs look well good, i think the pilots do more than people think !!

[Twitchy]

Had a look Kev, need to get some new plugs - rather checkthe colour on fresh plugs rather than plugs that have dealt with the DJ setup previously. The flat spot/hesitation feels more like dirty jets. I should have removed them and checked them but (stupidly) thought it best to leave them alone.

My FP needles are on 2nd clip from blunt end which I think are a bit lean, however the 50 pilots and 180/185 mains may be disguising that. Maybe I will end up lifting the rear needle 1 washer or even 1 slot. Screws set at 2 1/8 f & 1 1/2 r is a lot, with new plugs I should be able to see if that 1 1/2 rear is a bit lean.

[Twitchy]

Well my feeling seems to have been correct. Carbs off, bowls off, jets & tubes out. Looked up the guts of the pilots, rear has nice size hole, front had a hole, but it was tiny. Used my oxy tip cleaners to rod it through. 0.4mm cleaner went through, 0.6mm would not. Squirted carby cleaner through to clean any loose bits, squirted cleaner through the galley for both jets, cracking the throttle butterfly to clean the other pilot holes. Undecided at this stage whether to lift the needles, but probably going to leave them alone for the moment.

Tomorrow reassemble & reinstall carbs, do a driveway fuel screw tweak & balance and hopefully all will be sweet.

[NZSpokes]

Well my feeling seems to have been correct. Carbs off, bowls off, jets & tubes out. Looked up the guts of the pilots, rear has nice size hole, front had a hole, but it was tiny. Used my oxy tip cleaners to rod it through. 0.4mm cleaner went through, 0.6mm would not. Squirted carby cleaner through to clean any loose bits, squirted cleaner through the galley for both jets, cracking the throttle butterfly to clean the other pilot holes. Undecided at this stage whether to lift the needles, but probably going to leave them alone for the moment.

Tomorrow reassemble & reinstall carbs, do a driveway fuel screw tweak & balance and hopefully all will be sweet.

You realize the pilots are metric? It should be a small as in a 40 will be .4mm so if you can get a .6mm cleaner through its an issue?

[Twitchy]

You realize the pilots are metric? It should be a small as in a 40 will be .4mm so if you can get a .6mm cleaner through its an issue?

...0.4mm cleaner went through, 0.6mm would not....

[Twitchy]

Borrowed some ultra fine drill bits, used the 0.5mm in my fingers to clean the pilot holes out. Reassembled carbs today, and new spark plugs and ran it up. I wound the fuel screws out 2 1/4 front and rear after reading that setting was a good starting point for the FP kit (was 2 1/8 front and 1 1/2 rear). Bike started without choke but back to having that rich exhaust stench again. Tomorrow I will pull the plugs to check the colour, and adjust accordingly. Having said that there is still a good hangup at the 2000ish rpm mark. Supposedly lean at that point, but again it confuses me as it smells rich. Have not ridden it as yet.

[Twitchy]

For the sake of comparison, this is the plugs after running the FP setup the other night with a blocked front pilot and 2 1/8 front and 1 1/2 rear fuel screw settings (pretty good colour I reckon!);


Front plug on the left, rear on the right. If anything I reckon the front is a tad lean.

[kenmoore]

Have you sorted this?

[Twitchy]

Hey Ken, yeah kinda sorted. As mentioned earlier, FP setup with screws still on 2 1/8 front & 1 1/2 rear, TPS on 808 ohms and standard air filter. I have not touched it since then, only riding. Because it has zero surging, decent pull from low to mid revs, and believe it or not, will cruise at under 3k without a hiccup (yeah yeah I know its not good to treat a v twin like that, but I had to try), but I am overjoyed the bike rides well without any discernable issues, and I am enjoying not pulling the carbs off every second day! In the morning (04:45) it starts easily with about 5-7mm of choke. I start it, give it maybe 10 seconds and basically idle up the street, then nice and easy for couple of kms, pushing the choke back in that time. I do get a decent carb fart once in the first k or so when the choke is still out. In the arvo it starts easily with no choke. Idle currently 1500-1550 (bit high but saved a clunk die at the lights once so that was nice). As I am becoming more accustomed to the bike (riding to work 3-4 days a week now its nicer weather!), I have been giving it more throttle and higher revs, and consequently I am learning more every day about the bikes characteristics. I feel it is missing a bit of mid range grunt when giving it a twist, while it does get up and boogey, it doesnt seem to have a 1000cc v twin surge of power.I wonder if the needles need to be lifted 1 slot (currently 2nd from blunt end on FP). (But also I have read somewhere that high mount pipes need to have a slightly leaner setup than low mounts). As for the fuel screws, I have not yet pulled the plugs to check the colour. It has been suggested to me to try the next hotter plug - not sure it would make that much difference.

After saying all that, going to work the other day, made a classic rookie error. Traffic light went green as I was approaching, changing down into second. Found a gap between middle lane and right lane, went through and noticed dude in left lane changing to the middle lane. So I gave it a bit to get ahead in case he came over to my lane. He had is window open and I was feeding it on in 3rd, and missed fourth. free revved right next to this guy. His ears are probably still ringing! Anyways, found 4th, and got the heck outta there, up to 160 (100 zone). Stayed around 150 - 160 for a minute or so, and peeled off the off ramp to a red light. Sat there for a bit (aforementioned deaf guy pulled up nearby), and when the lights went green, took off moderatly to 70km/h in 3rd, and it surged quite a bit. Not like it used to but still surging. Changed back to 2nd for a bit, then back up to 3rd and it seemed ok. So I wonder why sitting on 150-160 in 4th (not sure what revs) would cause a (possible) lean issue down the road? had me puzzled but not overly bothered by it.

However..... I have received my new chain & sprockets, I have a weep along the thread on the rear Kreiger cct, and I think the carbs could do with the aforementioned tweak. But as I said, it is a joy to ride compared to the bucking bronco it was 3 months ago, so am hesitant to mess with it!

[kenmoore]

For a while Before I fitted my billet stacks I had my bike idling at 1500.

Now after syncing the carbs and doing the mixtures I have it at 1200.

Bloody funny things these VTRs.

Today was a nice moderate day temp wise and I went for a 400K ride and the bike was carb farting every now and then which it very rarely does.

I have had my bike for so long that I forget every little adjustment that I have done to the carbs but it pulls like a 16yr old with a penthouse magazine and it's really strong in the midrange as well so I am doing nothing more to it except the odd sync and mixture.

These bikes are strong from 5-8000 Revs, or at least mine is so I can't help but think that there is still something amiss with yours. I am not trying to Jinx you but after all you've been through you deserve a bike that performs as it should.

A couple of things ,

Are your carb inlet rubbers good? are the clamps good? I had my carbs off so many times early on in the setting up of my bike that I bought new genuine ones.

Also, have you checked the diaphragm in the fuel tap? and the strainer in the tank?

Like I said, not being negative , rather trying to help get your bike running as it should.

Years ago when I was Motocrossing on 2 strokes I played with the jetting and different heat range plugs and had great success, maybe with your set up a different plug may solve the problem.

Your situation is doing my head in, I hope you get it sorted and enjoy your bike for the great machine that it is.

Keep us posted on what happens please.

[Twitchy]

Appreciate the feedback Ken, but don't be sympathetic, I should have noted down all the settings when I stripped the carbs the first time. A steep and lengthy learning curve!

I have been contemplating the billet stacks, I did find a guy who I think is in Australia, but figured it would require more tweaking which I am not sure I want to do just yet. As for the idle, this pair of carbs has a sticky idle screw/spring which I think requires a washer. When increasing idle, the screw feels like it catches the spring and winds back a bit so I need to wind it further and further till the spring rotates as well, resulting in a higher idle than necessary. I reckon it would be fine at 1400 but as with the previous posts its running ok so not inclined to pull it apart again just yet! I suppose I could sort the idle screw and bring the TPS down to 500 as a trial. Only changing the TPS would be a good test as well (only 1 change at a time to see the effect!). The carb rubbers are brand new - 1 of the first things I replaced. No fuel tap.on mine but not sure about the diaphragm though.

Been thinking about getting it dynoed with afr meter, but need to check the cost of that. Maybe over the Xmas break I will do the cct and chain/sprockets (43T rear) and see how we go.