Air filter mod?

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sirch345
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Air filter mod?

Post by sirch345 »

Who's carried out the burnie morgan airfilter modication :?: If you have did you notice any difference. I've read what Burnie says, but would be interested to hear what your opinions are. I have heard some say doing this mod allows more dust to access the air filter. What's your opinions :?:

http://www.burniemorgan.com/firestorm/airfilter.html


Chris.
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Re: Air filter mod?

Post by AMCQ46 »

Chris,
As I don't have the stock filter in place, my answer will be ideal, but I can say that neither the K&N or the BMC filters have the upright wall fitted and I don't see any problem with debris on the filter. I also removed the bar that it should locate in.

Given the low cost of the std filter, it is a cheep experiment...actually you could easily glue the wall back in and cost you nothing :lol:
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scott02464
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Re: Air filter mod?

Post by scott02464 »

I've done this, in fact I forgotten I'd done it until now!

Tbh mate I noticed no difference in response or fuel consumption.
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Re: Air filter mod?

Post by scott02464 »

P.s I didn't have to cut the bar shaped piece out of mine, as it was held in by two screws, so can easily be put back...
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agentpineapple
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Re: Air filter mod?

Post by agentpineapple »

not only did i unscrew the plastic bar and take it out, i also cut out and smoothed out the 2 mounting points aswell. i haven't noticed any difference tbh.... :?
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sirch345
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Re: Air filter mod?

Post by sirch345 »

Cheers Alastair and Scott for your opinions :thumbup: As you say Alastair it's not going to cost a lot to try it. I like the bit about glueing it back if I don't like it :lol:

Scott, that bar in the airbox is fixed in on all of them afaik with two screws, so like you say easy to replace if needed.

Chris.

PS. Cheers Marty for your input as well :thumbup:
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VTRDark
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Re: Air filter mod?

Post by VTRDark »

I have never had a standard filter in mine. Only ever had a K&N and now a BMC. When I first got the bike I took the two screws out and removed the bar. Can't say It gave me any noticeable improvements but did give slightly more intake noise. I might put it back in to see what happens as I have two long stacks in now, which create a lot more intake noise anyway.

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Stephan
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Re: Air filter mod?

Post by Stephan »

I did. My feel was little bit smoother run. As written above, BMC and KN don´t have this edge as well, and filtration is worse than paper filter ...
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Re: Air filter mod?

Post by sirch345 »

Thanks for your replies as well Carl and Stephan :thumbup:

Chris.
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Re: Air filter mod?

Post by tony.mon »

Stephan wrote:I did. My feel was little bit smoother run. As written above, BMC and KN don´t have this edge as well, and filtration is worse than paper filter ...
Are you talking about particle size or flow rate?
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Re: Air filter mod?

Post by scott02464 »

sirch345 wrote:Cheers Alastair and Scott for your opinions :thumbup: As you say Alastair it's not going to cost a lot to try it. I like the bit about glueing it back if I don't like it :lol:

Scott, that bar in the airbox is fixed in on all of them afaik with two screws, so like you say easy to replace if needed.

Chris.

PS. Cheers Marty for your input as well :thumbup:
Sorry for the late reply Chris!

Yes I just removed the two screws holding the bar In place, I never did any cutting or filing just in case I didn't like the effects (none) so its easy to refit now it's just the two screws, but because it hadn't made any difference I'd forgotten I'd done it lol!

Scott
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Re: Air filter mod?

Post by Stephan »

tony.mon wrote:
Stephan wrote:I did. My feel was little bit smoother run. As written above, BMC and KN don´t have this edge as well, and filtration is worse than paper filter ...
Are you talking about particle size or flow rate?
Just amount of dust coming trough the filter. But it is more theory, I found only one old test saying that KN filter prevent from 97% of debris, and paper filter 99% - what means that KN is 3times worse than paper filter. And if I look on filter, it looks like paper is more capable, at least I don´t see trough :-)

http://bmwmotorcycletech.info/K-and-N-filters.htm

But this is something very hard to prove - how it effects the engine health, I wouldn´t worry anyway. I tried BMC street filter but my bike runs better with paper hiflo.
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Re: Air filter mod?

Post by tony.mon »

Stephan wrote:
tony.mon wrote:
Stephan wrote:I did. My feel was little bit smoother run. As written above, BMC and KN don´t have this edge as well, and filtration is worse than paper filter ...
Are you talking about particle size or flow rate?
Just amount of dust coming trough the filter. But it is more theory, I found only one old test saying that KN filter prevent from 97% of debris, and paper filter 99% - what means that KN is 3times worse than paper filter. And if I look on filter, it looks like paper is more capable, at least I don´t see trough :-)

http://bmwmotorcycletech.info/K-and-N-filters.htm

But this is something very hard to prove - how it effects the engine health, I wouldn´t worry anyway. I tried BMC street filter but my bike runs better with paper hiflo.
You can't compare a mechanical filter, like a paper one, to a K+N which is oiled, and works by having larger voids between the cotton fibres, but coating them with sticky oil which attracts and traps and debris or detritus.
Simply looking through it isn't very scientific!
And paper filters (like vacuum cleaners) become less efficient at passing air through as they become clogged, whereas oiled filters (foam or cotton fibre) don't suffer as much; the flow rates are still better than standard even when they're quite dirty.
Paper filters pass less and less air as they become dirty in normal use, and less air flows through, leading to a richer mixture in extreme cases, but less power anyway as the engine has to work harder to suck air in; the air pressure on the post-filter side is at lower pressure for longer as the intake stroke progresses, and the engine gulps a large amount of air from the airbox. This lower pressure exists until the filter can flow enough air in to equalise pressure with atmospheric again.

If the intake valves have closed before the filter allows enough air through, then you have less volume/pressure air in the cylinder, hence lost power.


But simply putting a higher-flow filter into a bike often gives rise to problems, simply because most people don't reset the fuelling (jets and adjustments) to compensate for the higher flow/quicker recharge rate.
That's why you often hear people saying "I put in a BMC/K+N/other make filter and it ran worse, but when I put the standard one back in it was better".
They are simply running the wrong carburettor settings for the filter they have in.
To a degree the same can be said for race cans, but the engine's more tolerant on Storms of cans without jetting changes. If they revved higher it would become more of an issue.

Mine is properly jetted for its K+N, but if I put a standard one in I expect that the bike would run worse, simply because it's not set up for that filter.

To prove the theory, try running your bike with no filter for a couple of miles- as long as you aren't in the Sahara on a windy day it win't cause any damage for just a mile or two. The bike should be at it's best performance because there's nothing getting in the way of the air flow into the carbs. But what you'll find is that it runs lean, due to the "extra" air it's getting, compared to what it's set up to deal with. It could be jetted to suit the unfiltered air flow, but you'd have to rebuild your engine quite often due to bore and valve stem wear.

So in summary- anything you do which changes the way your engine breathes in or out should be followed by checking/adjusting fuelling to suit, otherwise it won't run properly.

Just my opinion, please feel free to offer yours. :thumbup:
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Stephan
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Re: Air filter mod?

Post by Stephan »

tony.mon wrote:You can't compare a mechanical filter, like a paper one, to a K+N which is oiled, and works by having larger voids between the cotton fibres, but coating them with sticky oil which attracts and traps and debris or detritus.
Simply looking through it isn't very scientific!
And paper filters (like vacuum cleaners) become less efficient at passing air through as they become clogged, whereas oiled filters (foam or cotton fibre) don't suffer as much; the flow rates are still better than standard even when they're quite dirty.
Paper filters pass less and less air as they become dirty in normal use, and less air flows through, leading to a richer mixture in extreme cases, but less power anyway as the engine has to work harder to suck air in; the air pressure on the post-filter side is at lower pressure for longer as the intake stroke progresses, and the engine gulps a large amount of air from the airbox. This lower pressure exists until the filter can flow enough air in to equalise pressure with atmospheric again.

If the intake valves have closed before the filter allows enough air through, then you have less volume/pressure air in the cylinder, hence lost power.


But simply putting a higher-flow filter into a bike often gives rise to problems, simply because most people don't reset the fuelling (jets and adjustments) to compensate for the higher flow/quicker recharge rate.
That's why you often hear people saying "I put in a BMC/K+N/other make filter and it ran worse, but when I put the standard one back in it was better".
They are simply running the wrong carburettor settings for the filter they have in.
To a degree the same can be said for race cans, but the engine's more tolerant on Storms of cans without jetting changes. If they revved higher it would become more of an issue.

Mine is properly jetted for its K+N, but if I put a standard one in I expect that the bike would run worse, simply because it's not set up for that filter.

To prove the theory, try running your bike with no filter for a couple of miles- as long as you aren't in the Sahara on a windy day it win't cause any damage for just a mile or two. The bike should be at it's best performance because there's nothing getting in the way of the air flow into the carbs. But what you'll find is that it runs lean, due to the "extra" air it's getting, compared to what it's set up to deal with. It could be jetted to suit the unfiltered air flow, but you'd have to rebuild your engine quite often due to bore and valve stem wear.

So in summary- anything you do which changes the way your engine breathes in or out should be followed by checking/adjusting fuelling to suit, otherwise it won't run properly.

Just my opinion, please feel free to offer yours. :thumbup:
Looking through the filter was more or less joke, the main point is posted link.

BMC and paper filter has similar filtration area, is there any way how to significantly improve air flow without sacrifying filter efficiency? Yes, cotton filter has different way how to trap debris, but still, better airflow on one side, means more dirt is going through on other side.

Again, this is more hypothetical, personally I have doubts about level of filtration, there are few tests on internet saying it, but nobody tells you if engine really suffer or not. So I cannot argue if you say that cotton filter is good enough for the engine.

For paper filter clogging there is simple solution, I change it periodically.

I tried various combinations of jetting with BMC, but best result was still with paper filter. Not in peak power, where BMC was the best, but there was still hole in the middle. After I put paper filter, it was way better. After changing pilots to 48 and change the needles positions even more and now I am quite happy with performance and fuel consumption. Haven´t been on dyno yet.
Maybe if I try it again with BMC, it would work, with plugged one hole in front, 48 pilots and properly positioned needles, but my finding is that cotton filter works properly only with dynojet kit. And I still have doubts about filtration so don´t want to try again.

Opinions can vary, this is just my :-)
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toonarmy
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Re: Air filter mod?

Post by toonarmy »

so have we a defined answer on this mod chaps ? ya or na !!!!!
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