After talking about speeding in Ireland the other day, what did I do? That's right - overtook an unmarked cop car at over 70mph, crossing a continuous white line!
Sounds thick, right? He was in front of a tailgating van (he mustn't have known it was a cop car?...), both doing 55 - 60mph The stretch of road is about 2 miles out of Skerries, heading towards Dublin. I did it at the top of a half-mile-long downhill straight. The road has recently been resurfaced, and the continuous white line that's been repainted extends too far for traffic leaving Skerries - further than before the resurfacing - (specially for bikes, with an extra 18" or so of head height over car drivers - better view, yeah?). I accept that coming TOWARDS Skerries, visibility ahead, even for bikes, is shite, so the continuous white line is necessary.
They took all my details - licence, name, address, bike reg. Asked about where I was "travelling to this morning". Is it my bike? How long have I had it in the country?
I asked what happens next, and he said he was cautioning me under blah blah blah, for the following offences . . .
Driving in excess of the speed limit. He said "well in excess of 80"
Dangerous driving.
Crossing a single white line.
He listed some other charge about being a danger to other road users.
He didn't list driving with undue care & attention.
General opinion among mates seems to be that as he didn't record my speed, he can't do me for speeding. But crossing the white line is dangerous driving. I don't know what'll be the outcome - obviously, I hope it was a slap on the wrist and now it's over, but I guess I should be prepared for a summons/prosecution/fine.
Really put the shits up me...
Speeding & crossing a white line to overtake a police ca
Speeding & crossing a white line to overtake a police ca
94 Corolla and a big goo for an R1150GS
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STEVESTORM
- Posts: 85
- Joined: Thu Mar 04, 2004 7:47 pm
- Location: CHELMSFORD ENGLAND
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essexbloke
- Posts: 656
- Joined: Wed Nov 13, 2002 12:29 pm
- Location: Colchester, England
Oops you could be well knackered........
Did he have Vascar (digital imaging) in the car??? how long between you passing him, and being stopped??? they could have you on film,(although you should have been shown this at the time), but Vascar only works over a measured distance...
Secondly, out of all the potential prosecutions, undoubtedly, Dangerous driving is the worst, if considered serious enough, (and if charged), you can easily face a prison sentance for dangereous driving.... at best, a whacking big fine & millions of points....
If i were you, i'd clutch your Butt Cheeks, and pre-warn a solicitor, (you may need one...)
Did he have Vascar (digital imaging) in the car??? how long between you passing him, and being stopped??? they could have you on film,(although you should have been shown this at the time), but Vascar only works over a measured distance...
Secondly, out of all the potential prosecutions, undoubtedly, Dangerous driving is the worst, if considered serious enough, (and if charged), you can easily face a prison sentance for dangereous driving.... at best, a whacking big fine & millions of points....
If i were you, i'd clutch your Butt Cheeks, and pre-warn a solicitor, (you may need one...)
SILVTR,
If he didn't have a camera on you he can't do you for speeding.
As for the other stuff, did he write out a ticket or anything or did he just say you'd be taken to court?
I got stopped for passing between two cars & passing on the left on the M50 a while back(it was 11pm and there were only about ten cars on the motorway between finglas & the tollbridge), the copper ate the baldrocks off me & took my details saying he was gonna take me to court and get my license taken off me etc, for the above stuff and speeding etc.. I asked him specifically what I'd done & when he mentioned speeding I told him yes, I'd passed between two cars(which had seen me coming & politely moved over to let me through) and yes I'd passed on the left(ould codger doing 50 in the fast lane) but I told him there was no way I was speeding, to which he replied "yeah, but you passed on the left & between two cars blah blah", actually sounded like he was clutching at straws. But at the end of the day he never did(take me to court). A lot of the time they're just trying to put the shits up you and have no intention of prosecuting.
Even if it does go to court theres a good chance he wont show up on the day in which case they'll throw the case out.
If he didn't have a camera on you he can't do you for speeding.
As for the other stuff, did he write out a ticket or anything or did he just say you'd be taken to court?
I got stopped for passing between two cars & passing on the left on the M50 a while back(it was 11pm and there were only about ten cars on the motorway between finglas & the tollbridge), the copper ate the baldrocks off me & took my details saying he was gonna take me to court and get my license taken off me etc, for the above stuff and speeding etc.. I asked him specifically what I'd done & when he mentioned speeding I told him yes, I'd passed between two cars(which had seen me coming & politely moved over to let me through) and yes I'd passed on the left(ould codger doing 50 in the fast lane) but I told him there was no way I was speeding, to which he replied "yeah, but you passed on the left & between two cars blah blah", actually sounded like he was clutching at straws. But at the end of the day he never did(take me to court). A lot of the time they're just trying to put the shits up you and have no intention of prosecuting.
Even if it does go to court theres a good chance he wont show up on the day in which case they'll throw the case out.
Peter Brennan.
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marktheimmortal
- Posts: 10
- Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2003 9:42 am
- Location: Cheshire
how frustrating!!!
i got pulled in the peak district for overtaking a granny doing 30 in a 50. I didn't speed, it was safe to overtake, it was a straight road but a copper saw me and chased after me. It was a double white line!
After tailing me for 15 mins without me speeding he pulled me and had a right attitute. "Take your helmet off sir and give me your keys, i'm going to prosecute you". I didn't know what i'd done wrong at first! He gave me a TS20 (for overtaking on a double white) 3 points and £60 fine.
If i knew then what I knew then i wouldn't have these points. I should have resisted accepting the penalty and gone to court where it probably would have been thrown out. I was naive.
The law is a farce and I now have to put up with 3 points on my paper license for 4 years. Then other people just get a caution etc etc. A female friend of mine got pulled for doing 90 in a 70 and got a verbal telling off. why? cos she's a girl. its all so wrong!
winge winge. lol.
After tailing me for 15 mins without me speeding he pulled me and had a right attitute. "Take your helmet off sir and give me your keys, i'm going to prosecute you". I didn't know what i'd done wrong at first! He gave me a TS20 (for overtaking on a double white) 3 points and £60 fine.
If i knew then what I knew then i wouldn't have these points. I should have resisted accepting the penalty and gone to court where it probably would have been thrown out. I was naive.
The law is a farce and I now have to put up with 3 points on my paper license for 4 years. Then other people just get a caution etc etc. A female friend of mine got pulled for doing 90 in a 70 and got a verbal telling off. why? cos she's a girl. its all so wrong!
winge winge. lol.
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Pete.L
- Forum Health And Safety Officer
- Posts: 7217
- Joined: Fri Sep 26, 2003 5:09 pm
- Location: Bristol
Life,s not fair
I got and absolute bollocking off a copper. He followed me down my steet from the main road, skidded to a halt sideways across my drive to block me in and started screaming at the top of his lungs at me.
I just stood there and took it saying "yes officer.No officer" at all the right places.
Eventually he ran out of steam and left saying " I'll be watching for you sunny". "Think yourself lucky this time".
I had never admitted to the offence no matter what he said or how hard he had shouted so there was nothing for him to do but let me go.
Moral of the story:
Next time you overtake a copper at 130 in a 40 zone. say nothing,just take it.He might have nothing on you he can proove
I got and absolute bollocking off a copper. He followed me down my steet from the main road, skidded to a halt sideways across my drive to block me in and started screaming at the top of his lungs at me.
I just stood there and took it saying "yes officer.No officer" at all the right places.
Eventually he ran out of steam and left saying " I'll be watching for you sunny". "Think yourself lucky this time".
I had never admitted to the offence no matter what he said or how hard he had shouted so there was nothing for him to do but let me go.
Moral of the story:
Next time you overtake a copper at 130 in a 40 zone. say nothing,just take it.He might have nothing on you he can proove
To be prosecuted for a speeding offence there must be 2 forms of corroborating evidence. For example on a Gatso the speed sensor that records the speed is not enough. It is corroborated by the 2 photo's measuring your distance travelled using the graduations on the road.
Almost ANY combination of means by which your speed is measured will do.
Best example of that being: 2 police officers sat in their car eating a McDonalds, in a 30mph zone. Bike goes past at speed. 1st officer thinks to himself the bike was travelling at 60mph. Asks his mate how fast he thought it had been going. Mate says 55-60mph. There is your corroborative evidence, a statement from each of them and that will secure a prosecution. Don't even need to stop you, just break off from the burger to jot down time and reg number and that will do it.
No vascar, no radar, no cameras, no gatso,no pacing for a half a mile, no remembering to put on their hat while they speak to you, just a summons.
Not sure how it works in Eire so Pete may well be correct but I do know how it works over here.
On the subject of offences and especially fixed penalties I would tend to run with a court appearance instead of the penalty. You lose, you pay additional court costs, maybe a bigger fine but often the same £60 and 3 pts(assuming that is what applies to that offence). I would always go to court on a red light, especially on a wet road, safer to keep going than brake on a wet deisel spillage etc.
Never forget that a fixed penalty is quick to write out for overworked plod, a file for court is more writing, might never be done, bingo.
Oh and watch out for the viet taff in North Wales as they can track your speed from the helicopter so you need to look in front, behind and UP......
Almost ANY combination of means by which your speed is measured will do.
Best example of that being: 2 police officers sat in their car eating a McDonalds, in a 30mph zone. Bike goes past at speed. 1st officer thinks to himself the bike was travelling at 60mph. Asks his mate how fast he thought it had been going. Mate says 55-60mph. There is your corroborative evidence, a statement from each of them and that will secure a prosecution. Don't even need to stop you, just break off from the burger to jot down time and reg number and that will do it.
No vascar, no radar, no cameras, no gatso,no pacing for a half a mile, no remembering to put on their hat while they speak to you, just a summons.
Not sure how it works in Eire so Pete may well be correct but I do know how it works over here.
On the subject of offences and especially fixed penalties I would tend to run with a court appearance instead of the penalty. You lose, you pay additional court costs, maybe a bigger fine but often the same £60 and 3 pts(assuming that is what applies to that offence). I would always go to court on a red light, especially on a wet road, safer to keep going than brake on a wet deisel spillage etc.
Never forget that a fixed penalty is quick to write out for overworked plod, a file for court is more writing, might never be done, bingo.
Oh and watch out for the viet taff in North Wales as they can track your speed from the helicopter so you need to look in front, behind and UP......
sh1t,
if he read you your rights then you are more than likely going to court. I had the same sort of thing when I was 17 (long time ago now), did a stonker of a wheelie over London Bridge. Good at the time but boy I paid for it. I went to court with a without due care and attention, drive a vehicle whilst not in total control (thought I did quiet well) but also dangerous driving in a 30 limit. Got let off the first two but got done on the DD30. Kin nightmare 10 points and £1000 fine. Fine was hard to pay but was sorted but the DD30 stayed with me for years, think is was 5 years on my license and is no in the same bracket as death by driving. Not a good offence to go to court with.
Sorry but better to be honest.
I would have a real good think of an excuse for them to drop the Dangerous Driving charge and take the speeding etc cos the DD will cripple your insurance. They wanted to ban me but I pleaded with them so I could keep my license to keep my job.
Come on Essexbloke what can be said to drop the DD charge. Errr somit like the van and police car looked dangerously close to each other so the safest thing was to get passed asap on the back wheel or somit.
Del. (hope that helped but probably not)
if he read you your rights then you are more than likely going to court. I had the same sort of thing when I was 17 (long time ago now), did a stonker of a wheelie over London Bridge. Good at the time but boy I paid for it. I went to court with a without due care and attention, drive a vehicle whilst not in total control (thought I did quiet well) but also dangerous driving in a 30 limit. Got let off the first two but got done on the DD30. Kin nightmare 10 points and £1000 fine. Fine was hard to pay but was sorted but the DD30 stayed with me for years, think is was 5 years on my license and is no in the same bracket as death by driving. Not a good offence to go to court with.
Sorry but better to be honest.
I would have a real good think of an excuse for them to drop the Dangerous Driving charge and take the speeding etc cos the DD will cripple your insurance. They wanted to ban me but I pleaded with them so I could keep my license to keep my job.
Come on Essexbloke what can be said to drop the DD charge. Errr somit like the van and police car looked dangerously close to each other so the safest thing was to get passed asap on the back wheel or somit.
Del. (hope that helped but probably not)
Mark,
I have found that from my car offences such as; speeding and dangerous overtaking that if they don't issue with a fixed penalty fine and notice there and then, that if you call to the station and be all contrite and apologetic that they see that their power trip has paid off, and they think that they have put you back in your box, therefore think they have won, and in 50% of cases I was let off.
The first thing to do in Ireland, as you probably have done, is to talk to all your mates, find one that knows a Garda, and get him to plead your case to the guy who stopped you, usually pays off, especially if they hold rank! (nice living two doors away from a retired superintendant!
)
What's going on over here, have I started something with the road rage!?!
I have found that from my car offences such as; speeding and dangerous overtaking that if they don't issue with a fixed penalty fine and notice there and then, that if you call to the station and be all contrite and apologetic that they see that their power trip has paid off, and they think that they have put you back in your box, therefore think they have won, and in 50% of cases I was let off.
The first thing to do in Ireland, as you probably have done, is to talk to all your mates, find one that knows a Garda, and get him to plead your case to the guy who stopped you, usually pays off, especially if they hold rank! (nice living two doors away from a retired superintendant!
)What's going on over here, have I started something with the road rage!?!
RQ.
The Stig of 2 wheels as well as 4 !
The Stig of 2 wheels as well as 4 !
I am a relative new boy here, so I will keep it short, but is essence to prove dangerous driving, it has to to be shown that the stadard of driving/riding fell well below the standard that would be expected of a reasonably comptent driver. There also to a degree has to be a complete disregard to the possible outcome of such behaviour which is why the majority of prosecutions end up being for careless rather than dangerous driving.
Soapy is absolutely right as far as speed enforcement is concerned, a speedometer corroborated by a single traffic officer is sufficient, and like a beat bobby who can give evidence of opinion on someone who is drunk, a traffic officer is considered an expert in respect of speed and therefore can give expert evidence of opinion.
There is no requirement for lazer, VASCAR, GATSO or whatever, just the opinion of the copper is sufficient and if they cannot record your speed there is always the option of doing the individual for speed reckless which carries a much higher penalty.
Soapy is absolutely right as far as speed enforcement is concerned, a speedometer corroborated by a single traffic officer is sufficient, and like a beat bobby who can give evidence of opinion on someone who is drunk, a traffic officer is considered an expert in respect of speed and therefore can give expert evidence of opinion.
There is no requirement for lazer, VASCAR, GATSO or whatever, just the opinion of the copper is sufficient and if they cannot record your speed there is always the option of doing the individual for speed reckless which carries a much higher penalty.
It is better to arrive 30 seconds late in this word than 30 years early in the next