Don't own a VTR, well not a complete one anyway...

[renrut]

Hi there. I've joined this forum to try to get some information on the engine I'm forcing into a small hatchback.

The bit thats troubling me is the CDI unit. I've got a 2001 VTR1000 SP-1 engine but the CDI unit from a 1998 VTR1000. Its complicated how I got here and budget is tight so I can't afford to get a CDI from an SP-1. If someone can give me the pinout or even just which colour wire goes where for the early VTR1000 CDI I'd be grateful?

They're both 6 pin but they don't seem to be a straight through which I've already tried and nothing happened.

I've got wiring diagrams for both engines and the wire colours are identical but neither shows the pin numbering on the CDI units

[benny hedges]

i would say phil vt is your man.
i'm not sure if it's possible tbh but if it is good luck!
pics of your project?
why did you choose a rc51 mill and not a busa or something?

[renrut]

Its all a bit heath robinson and not turned a wheel in anger yet, very much a work in progress. The interesting view -


And the fuel tank found a home too -



I choose an rc51 for loads of reasons but mostly because my brother had a spare one in his garage he wanted rid of. He bought it for his track bike "because it was so cheap on ebay" but then he never needed it. On doing a bit of research, it looked to be a great idea, more torque lower down compared to the other engines available, a lot cheaper to buy and lighter than the original car engine and box. I originally wanted to drop it sideways into the engine bay but couldn't find a rwd diff suitable. So in the back it went. If I did it again I'd probably spend more time looking for a diff

I guessed it might not be possible to run it on the CDI but if it does it'll save me a stack of money as the early vtr CDI units are cheap as chips. My bro has agreed to loan me the CDI unit from his bike just to check everything else is working but obviously he'll want it back.

[benny hedges]

bonkers! i like the tank in the front lol!
suppose you could just run it on firestorm carbs?

i'll have your fi goodies lol
keep us updated - should be interesting what it does on the road, there's not many cars that rev to 10k!

[seb421]

Wicked that car is gona sound wombles mental

Keep us all updated and get some you tube stuff going on too

[renrut]

Borrowed the working SP CDI box from my bro. Getting spark now on both plugs but it still doesn't seem to be firing up. It's like the timing is completely to pot, if you crank it long enough it might fire once or twice but not consistently. Definitely getting fuel and spark through and got compression as well, checked with the plugs out and just turning it over, can feel it pushing the air out the cylinders.

So I'm gonna try and read the diag code and see what it says. Any thoughts on what else it could be? Fuel has sat for a month or 2 so isn't fresh but I wouldn't have thought it would go off that quickly, if diag turns up nothing I'll put some fresh fuel in.

[Pete.L]

What are you doing to fool the sensors?
I must admit, I wouldn't have expected a spark if it's a sensor problem so it might be irrelivent but if you have a spark and you have fuel it should be going
Can't be the timing, that's electronic. Fuel pump priming at switch on?

Pete.l

[Jbrebel]

That's ace-it'll sound very nice

[Zakalwe]

Am I missing something here? The SP1 is a fuel injected engine and you are using a CDI off a Firestorm (which runs carbs)????

How are you fuelling the motor?

[renrut]

Am I missing something here? The SP1 is a fuel injected engine and you are using a CDI off a Firestorm (which runs carbs)????

How are you fuelling the motor?

I was trying to use a firestorm cdi (£30 vs £100+) but just to make sure everything else is working I've borrowed the cdi from my brothers SP1. The fuelling is using the complete sp1 throttles, airbox, fuel pump, fuel tank.

Now as far as I'm aware the only sensor that need fooling to get it to start is the tilt sensor? Or have I missed something? Probably worth mentioning here that I've never ridden a bike so if its something obvious that would be worth mentioning too

[Zakalwe]

Am I missing something here? The SP1 is a fuel injected engine and you are using a CDI off a Firestorm (which runs carbs)????

How are you fuelling the motor?

I was trying to use a firestorm cdi (£30 vs £100+) but just to make sure everything else is working I've borrowed the cdi from my brothers SP1. The fuelling is using the complete sp1 throttles, airbox, fuel pump, fuel tank.

Now as far as I'm aware the only sensor that need fooling to get it to start is the tilt sensor? Or have I missed something? Probably worth mentioning here that I've never ridden a bike so if its something obvious that would be worth mentioning too

I aint no electrical genius...but how is the fuelling timing controlled if you are using the 'Storm ECU??? What tells the injectors when to fire?

An engine needs 3 things to run...fuel, spark and compression. If you have all of those, then the engine should fire. If not, then you are into things like valve timing and compression. Its unlikely that the valve timing is out (unless someone was messing?)...gear driven cams so no chains to jump a cog. Do you have compression/ completed a compression test? Was the engine a runner before the transplant?

[benny hedges]

Now as far as I'm aware the only sensor that need fooling to get it to start is the tilt sensor? Or have I missed something?

neutral switch, clutch switch, sidestand switch, alarm / immobiliser?
get a workshop manual from the workshop manuals thread - check out the electrical drawings

[tony.mon]

Nope, it's going to be a complete nightmare, and the heat given off will be awful- you'll be lucky to get to the end of the road in flameproof racing suits.
It's a no-hoper, I'm afraid, so I'm willing to take the motor off your hands for twenty quid cash just to do you a favour, as long as it's delivered to my lockup, no questions asked as to paperwork and I won't need a receipt....

Sounds like fuelling, though.
if it was any of the safety locks, sidestand etc it wouldn't get any sparks at all, and the starter may not operate.
If those seem ok, then it'll be fuelling, assuming the basic motor's ok.

Crankshaft or cam position sensor connected ok? (not sure which one is standard on SP's).
That's the bit that tells the FI when to inject.
Otherwise, fuel pump pressure?

[renrut]

Ok I've changed the fuel out for some fresh just to be certain. I've gone through the clutch switch, neutral switch and side stand switches (no immobiliser) and they're tied closed, closed (but still functioning, its just in neutral) and closed. So thats all good.

Still doesn't start. Plugs are getting wet, but it doesn't seem to be firing in time with the engine. Having the plugs out they do fire but even out the engine it doesn't look like its in time with the engine.

Pulled the fault codes out using the service connector and its reports three faults 9, 10 and 19. Which from the workshop manual I found on here - Thanks whoever put that link up! - says its IAT, Baro and Ignition Pulse Generator at fault. Looking that up it suggests that I'll be ok with IAT and Baro not connected as it just assumes some preset default values. But the ignition pulse generator being at fault will stop it starting.

I've checked and it's all connected up right (its the red 2pin one coming off the left side crank case isn't it?).
So is it likely to be a dead sensor or just that the timing is out somehow or that its got crud on it and just needs a clean. So wish I'd bought a whole bike rather than bits, then I could have checked it was running before I took it apart!

[Pete.L]

Have you tried reversing the ignition coils? Could it be sparking on the rear when it should be on the front? I haven't looked so I don't know if it's possible but it's just a thought.

Pete.l