wheelie help...once again...

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smokin joes
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Post by smokin joes »

OK,
Sounds like your subconsious "anti flip" is holding you back here,
If you are getting two feet, then you are almost there, my guess is that you might be too high in the rev range, therefore you are on the edge of the torque, rather than at the beginning of it, I find that once its up, I can lift it more by a little more throttle, when I say a little I mean, a little, the slightest twist will do it, to prove this, get it up, then hold the throttle steady, it will continue along the road fort a short time under its own inertia, if when its up, CLOSE the throttle, by the SLIGHTEST amount and see how quickly it comes down again, this applies in reverse, the SMALLEST AMOUNT will make it rise again.Be interested to know how fast you are going when it lifts, the faster you are going, the more effort it requires.

My gearing is standard front (16 tooth) and 43 on the rear, I did have a 15 on the front as well but it was too "frantic" like a bloody trials bike,
I prefer the rear sprocket approach because it actually means you get a bit more life from a chain, with a 15 on the front I was at the end of the adjustment almost.

With 43 on the rear my technique to get it up is as follows :)

2nd gear, 3,800 - 4000 rpm, (ignore the speedo) clutch almost fully in, rev to about 6000, as the revs rise let the clutch out quickly, be ready to control the height on the throttle, not the clutch, once you have mastered this try regulating the height on the back brake, this takes a bit more practice because the front will probably slam down and castrate you on the first few attempts,

Enjoy....

Geoff M
Sex is like air. It only becomes really important when you aren't getting any.
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smokin joes
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Post by smokin joes »

OK,
Sounds like your subconsious "anti flip" is holding you back here,
If you are getting two feet, then you are almost there, my guess is that you might be too high in the rev range, therefore you are on the edge of the torque, rather than at the beginning of it, I find that once its up, I can lift it more by a little more throttle, when I say a little I mean, a little, the slightest twist will do it, to prove this, get it up, then hold the throttle steady, it will continue along the road fort a short time under its own inertia, if when its up, CLOSE the throttle, by the SLIGHTEST amount and see how quickly it comes down again, this applies in reverse, the SMALLEST AMOUNT will make it rise again.Be interested to know how fast you are going when it lifts, the faster you are going, the more effort it requires.

My gearing is standard front (16 tooth) and 43 on the rear, I did have a 15 on the front as well but it was too "frantic" like a bloody trials bike,
I prefer the rear sprocket approach because it actually means you get a bit more life from a chain, with a 15 on the front I was at the end of the adjustment almost.

With 43 on the rear my technique to get it up is as follows :)

2nd gear, 3,800 - 4000 rpm, (ignore the speedo) clutch almost fully in, rev to about 6000, as the revs rise let the clutch out quickly, be ready to control the height on the throttle, not the clutch, once you have mastered this try regulating the height on the back brake, this takes a bit more practice because the front will probably slam down and castrate you on the first few attempts,

Enjoy....

Geoff M
Sex is like air. It only becomes really important when you aren't getting any.
df_vtr
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Location: Staffordshire

Post by df_vtr »

Hey Smokin'

Joined the list (at last). Hi everyone!

Smokin, we need to get together on this wheelie lark. As you know I have great difficulty 'getting it up' (tho' my wife would disagree - accuses me of ramming a broom handle in her back every morning).

Added to my inability to wheelie with ANY satisfaction, I am also unable to 'get my knee down', almost to the point of giving up biking in my moments of frustration. I have little problem in riding with two wheels on the tarmac as you know, but this state of affairs isn't good enough.

As we're both local to one another, where can we go that's quiet (away from men in flourescent coats) for some 'training'? I am greatly encouraged by reports from some of you that 2nd gear wheelies on standard sprocketed VTRs IS indeed possible.

df_vtr
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smokin joes
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Post by smokin joes »

Daz,

the A road out of Eccleshall toward Newport is often VERY quiet of an evening, offering panoramic views of the surrounding fields and more importantly roads,
Dont ask me about knee down, I'm crap at that !!
Maybe this evening for an hour if you like ?
Let me know,
I will prove to you that a standard storm WILL do it,
ONe hour..and I'll have you "mingin it" :twisted:

Geoff M
Sex is like air. It only becomes really important when you aren't getting any.
df_vtr
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Post by df_vtr »

Geoff

If I'm able to I'll meet you tonight. Say 7pm at the gravel layby on the way out of Great Bridgeford?

How late can I let you know?

Daz
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WayneM
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Post by WayneM »

A gravel layby doesnt sound like the best place to practice wheelies!

:lol:
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EGG
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Post by EGG »

smokin joes wrote:OK,
Sounds like your subconsious "anti flip" is holding you back here,
If you are getting two feet, then you are almost there, my guess is that you might be too high in the rev range, therefore you are on the edge of the torque, rather than at the beginning of it, I find that once its up, I can lift it more by a little more throttle, when I say a little I mean, a little, the slightest twist will do it, to prove this, get it up, then hold the throttle steady, it will continue along the road fort a short time under its own inertia, if when its up, CLOSE the throttle, by the SLIGHTEST amount and see how quickly it comes down again, this applies in reverse, the SMALLEST AMOUNT will make it rise again.Be interested to know how fast you are going when it lifts, the faster you are going, the more effort it requires.

My gearing is standard front (16 tooth) and 43 on the rear, I did have a 15 on the front as well but it was too "frantic" like a bloody trials bike,
I prefer the rear sprocket approach because it actually means you get a bit more life from a chain, with a 15 on the front I was at the end of the adjustment almost.

With 43 on the rear my technique to get it up is as follows :)

2nd gear, 3,800 - 4000 rpm, (ignore the speedo) clutch almost fully in, rev to about 6000, as the revs rise let the clutch out quickly, be ready to control the height on the throttle, not the clutch, once you have mastered this try regulating the height on the back brake, this takes a bit more practice because the front will probably slam down and castrate you on the first few attempts,

Enjoy....

Geoff M
Thanks for the advice. I think i have found out what's holding me back(apart from having a big off 3 weeks ago thanks to some arsehole lorry drive)Whilst in the the act of pulling wheelies my arms bent are however when the bike comes up and back my body does the same. Yesterday i started leaning forword towards the tank and it felt better. I also got it higher even hooked second gear a couple of times but i have not mastered that yet. Only problem is i now need a new rear tyre. If you ever come near London let me know and we could have a brew and talk storms. Thanks again. By the way there some top scratching places round here even the cops are too bad! :twisted:
Better to burn out than just fade away!
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smokin joes
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Post by smokin joes »

Good man, all you need now is practice, then thats it !!
dont do what I did though and get too brave, I nearly had a major "off" cos I was "over keen",

Leaning forward is cool, it keeps things stable, if you are leaning back you are putting the balanc epoint further back, meaning it is more likely t flip, plus if it goes to far, what are you going to do ?? pull yourself up on the bars right ? your pulling on the bars from far back on the bike will only pull it over further.!! Plus as you pull up, you will be opening the throttle, get the idea ???
I try and keep my body vertical to the ground, this feels comfortable and also means I am nut making any inputs to the bars without knowing,
I am practising the "standing up wheelie" as per the Superbike boys at the moment, it does seem more stable when up, but a bit scary as that huge lump of metal rises in fromt of you, never mind, like I keep saying, practice practice practice, I'll get it.

Geoff M
I am not a wheelie guru, I am just very comfortable with the front wheel in the air
Sex is like air. It only becomes really important when you aren't getting any.
df_vtr
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Location: Staffordshire

Post by df_vtr »

Oh baldrocks!

Dr. Geoff, I need a labotomy! No matter how many times I tried on the into the office this morning, I could not get the front up in second. Revs up to 5k, off then back on quickly. Reaction? Diddly squat. Tried at about 6k but same response.

Can't remember what else I was doing (wrong): were my arms straight and tense instead of relaxed? were my legs squeezing the tank instead of sticking out? did I simply not apply enough gas? (I don't think so. I consciously tried that and just went faster).

Help! Before I sell the bike.

Daz
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smokin joes
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Post by smokin joes »

Daz,

As your bike is stock, (apart from cans) I suspect you might need to use a little clutch mate.

If it wont roll on in first, there is no chance it will do it in second. Having said that, I recall that evening near Market Drayton, I am sure I got the front up in first on your bike ?? or is my memory playing tricks again, would you trust me to rde yours and see if it will,??
I reckon I can certainly clutch it up in second, and roll it on in first.

Call me when you have a minute, 01782 250244
Sex is like air. It only becomes really important when you aren't getting any.
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BP team
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Post by BP team »

Hello Geoff,
i make several wheelies this week end during my travels. But i have difficulties to make distance (more than 200m).My rpm increased too fast and i put down my front wheel too hard at the end of the wheelies. there are some days like it, you can't do what you wan't!
I've two questions for you:
1°) do you know if wheelies could make dammages on the motor (problem of oil and lubrification) like on a 650 SV for exemple?

2°) can you tell me if it's possible with a VTR to do 1km on the rear wheel, sat on the saddle?
A friend of mine (the one making 1.8km on the rear wheel) tell me "put your feet on the back (passenger) pedals and pull up you bike (i don't know the word for the bars to put the feet...). your bike will stand up very easy! and you'll make very long distance after a little training".
easy easy, my ass! i try it, the front wheel lift a little but i don't feel very good in this position to really pull up my bike. i've to much weight on my arms to have a good control of the lift up. did you ever try it? (it's a third question...).


Hello DF_VTR,
as for me your difficulties come from the timing of the "shut off gas" and may be from your position on the bike. try on a road with a little slope it will help you. you will manage this week or the next or the next but you'll.
Good luck!


enjoy
Oliv'
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smokin joes
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Post by smokin joes »

Bonjour Olivier,
je constate que changer vers le haut des vitesses
aidera avec la distance. J'ai commencé à apprendre le stand vers le
haut, mais je ne l'aime pas prenant le vélo plus haut dans la
deuxième vitesse pour commencer par des moyens que vous avez besoin
de moins de puissance de la tenir, de petites entrées de commande de
puissance suis le meilleur, plus facile à commander aussi bien.

Je ne sais pas des dommages de moteur, je n'ai entendu parler de rien
mauvais. J'essaye de changer la vitesse dès que je bidon, ceci
m'aidera beaucoup. Mon disque est seulement 500 mètres, car je
continue à dire, je ne suis pas un expert, je le trouvent juste
facile à faire.

Geoff M

Ps I visit France at least twice per year. Family have a house in Cavallaire.
Sex is like air. It only becomes really important when you aren't getting any.
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smokin joes
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Post by smokin joes »

Olivier,

Veuillez excuser mon français. Je ne suis pas bon pour
l'inscription en une autre langue haha

Geoff M
Sex is like air. It only becomes really important when you aren't getting any.
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WayneM
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Post by WayneM »

Je me souhaite pourrais parler français! :lol:
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smokin joes
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Post by smokin joes »

merci.
Sex is like air. It only becomes really important when you aren't getting any.
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