Europe - In or Out?

[artee]

I'm not running a sweatshop, and the pay rates mentioned above are real, however the work is in central London, where the cost of living -rent, food etc- is high as .

So a tin of beans cost more in a London Tesco than a Northern Tesco?

Roger

Possibly. Possibly not. But a pint to go with them is nearly a fiver....
And the flat you sit in to eat them would cost you a whole lot more......And you can't park anywhere; there's a congestion charge for even driving in, and public transport is overcrowded and expensive.

Its beats me why people actually want to live/move there then.
I've been several times, hopefully never again.

Roger

[Seeker 77]

Living here is a bit of a joke. Thankfully the MOD pays for my travel (£2500 annual travel card) and I live in heavily subsidised married quarter (which if I was a private buyer would have cost me about £800k). The costs are a joke

[chric]

OUT AND THEN SEND ALL THE FOREIGN WORKERS BACK

Mmm! Controversial statement Chris. If they are legitimately working and paying taxes surely that can only be good for the economy! If they are tax dodgers and benefit cling ons then I agree!

OK well I'll let all the fit ones stay
Serious I'd limit them to 3 month a year one visit every 5 year if unskilled

[tony.mon]

You missed out the traffic! If I use the car, a 25 mile commute takes two and a quarter hours to get in in the morning, an hour and a half to get out again in the evening.
The average traffic speed in the centre is less than 10 mph.
Due to that, unless you have a leccy wagon or a stop/start, you get about 10 MPG as well.

Anyway, back to the subject, now Boris has climbed off the fence we can get used to non-stop campaigning until June.

Seems like it's the end for Cameron, and if we end up voting for out, then my money's going on Boris for PM next time round.

Labour are having another unelectable period, and there's no-one else of note. But if I'm right, Boris will then be in charge of a country that hasn't a hope of balancing the books for a long time, It'll be fun to watch, but he may regret going for the top job after a few months- he'll have a short time at the job, I fear.....

Nostradamus?
Who he?

[agentpineapple]

I have to agree with tony, it's just as much a benefits/cost of living issue, not to mention big business wanting cheap labour to compete in a global economy.
i'd look at the Australian method of migration, it seems to have many merits, as a small country I think it's only fair to keep a very close eye on migration.

[Seeker 77]

It's almost as if Cameron has taken one for the team by backing EU membership, just in time to let Boris wander in and take all the glory for leading an out campaign (what Cameron really wants). That will tee him up nicely for election in 2020. Or I might just be overly cynical....

[Stephan]

Regarding duty free market, UK is net importer. There is much more goods going in from EU, than going out. And this goods is cheaper through your donations to EU, what is kind of import duty as well - you get cheap vegetables, but you paid to spanish, french, other farmers ..., to make it cheap

UK is very big market and London is world financial center, you can be more in "Swiss" position and without all that EU sh1t.

For me, worth to try to live in democracy again.

[Mav617]

Good points Stephan, I'd pay slightly more to put money directly in the hands of our fishermen, farmers, manufacturers etc, rather than the Spanish (especially when buying fish) Now if we can get our Energy supplies back from the French......

[freeridenick]

My huge concern is that this decision is going to be made on grossly inaccurate reporting of immigration and it's effect on our economy, and nothing more. The numbers are actually tiny, a few thousand; most are refugees and asylum seekers; the UK takes a fraction of the numbers other EU countries take, less than Sweden; the UK pays asylum seekers something like £40 per week in benefits, less than France and about the same as Germany. I could go on.

Rules made by the EU are driven by the UK government as much as others, you just don't here about them as much as the ones they don't like: plenty of news about migrants but virtually none about TTIP, a deal that is vastly more damaging to the UK than migration. What is reported is 'politics of fear' where we're pressured to envy people next to us for what they have and and told to blame those people for why we haven't got the same.

Why? That's the question we should be asking, not whether we should be in or out of the EU. Our economy is growing (kind of) because the wealth of the top 1% is going through the roof, not because of increased manufacturing for example, but because Russian Oligarchs are buying ridiculously priced flats in London and spending millions on the odd diamond. It's not growing because governments have made a great job of creating a sustainable, fair and just society.

When it comes to the referendum don't, for one minute, think the question will simply be 'Should we stay in the EU, yes or no?' It'll be a heads-I-win-tails-you-lose type of question. In other words, one that supports them not us.

I'm starting to lose it now and get pissed off because all this makes me sound like some sort of swivel-eyed left-wing lunatic which I'm not, I wear corrective lenses.

[Mav617]

Lol, good post Nick

[Seeker 77]

I'm following that man, he speaks sense! Great writing Nick

[tony.mon]

It's them North Derbyshire types coming in and taking all of our posts that you have to watch.......
Sense at last

[Stratman]

It's them North Derbyshire types coming in and taking all of our posts that you have to watch.......
Sense at last

+1

[freeridenick]

Lol, nice one Tony. There must be a clever and witty Northern Power House response in there somewhere, but I'm not clever or witty enough to think of it.

It's probably clear I'm in favour of staying in but I'm willing to listen to sound, reasoned argument as to why we shouldn't. I don't include 'because the EU is a bureaucratic nightmare' or 'because we don't need other bodies imposing their rules on us' in that. There will always be rules, trade agreements, laws etc imposed on us whether we're in or out. I've not heard any pro out campaigners say what existing agreements would be nullified, what new agreements would be put in place nor how these new agreements would work and what impact they will have on our society.

[Seeker 77]

And nor shall you hear such clear and useful arguments. It's all about rulers in Brussels and stopping immigration!

Of course it may turn out to be a free, fair, open and honest discussion. Said nobody. Ever.