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Jazzscot wrote:Scotland has been governed for years by a Parliament that they never voted for!

Not true.
If you happen to live in a Conservative area, such as the South East, you've been ruled for the last 13 years by a Labour government that have a majority because of their vote in Scotland.

Right now, if you are a Labour voter in Barnsley, you're ruled by a Conservative government you didn't vote for.

Scotland's not a special case. It's only about 8% of the whole UK, yet you take more than 8% of the total spend.

I really wish the vote had been a Yes. It would have been so much better for us all, what with the oil price crashing, some estimates at the moment of $36 a barrel before the end of the year, meaning the north sea would be running at a loss. Not to mention Scotch sales drying up in the US reported today in the Telegraph.

So much for this 'booming economy' Salmond promised, it would be collapsing right about now.

Miztaziggy wrote:

chric wrote:
if you had lived where i live and see what the tories did and didnt do you would think different and im not going to say where i live on a open forum.
and yes we had free milk till thatcher snathed it i know as i did milk round at school got you out of lessons for a hour

OK, I assume you're referring to the mining jobs that were lost during Thatcher's leadership?

I assume you don't count the fact that more 'manufacturing' jobs were lost AFTER Thatcher and during the 13 years of Labour than were ever lost during her leadership?

Or I guess you conveniently forget that the real reason for the loss of manufacturing jobs was a total lack of competitiveness, partly because of the unions, partly because of the Saudis. After the Israeli war on Jordan and Turkey (I think), the Saudis held a gun to the west's head by raising oil prices 3 or 4 times over night until we backed down and Israel pulled back.

never looked into it that much all i know once labour got back in we had new factorys schools houseing jobs medical centers even a cash machine
its alot deeper than mining jobs that did not affect me job wise as they closed them all down when i was 15.Its how they let the villages go to rack and ruin and dumped all the sh1t from all over the country into certain areas drugs theft was rife.100s of houses where left to rack and ruin through scum what had been in from private landlords with cash houses went down to 3000-4000 pound southerners where buying them on credit cards.
it got that bad they did an entire village raid where no one was aloud in or out.
And for david cameron he came to our village to a new factory but no one knew he was there untill it was on the news
so thats why most yorkshire people dont like tories

Miztaziggy wrote:

Jazzscot wrote:Scotland has been governed for years by a Parliament that they never voted for!

Not true.
If you happen to live in a Conservative area, such as the South East, you've been ruled for the last 13 years by a Labour government that have a majority because of their vote in Scotland.

Right now, if you are a Labour voter in Barnsley, you're ruled by a Conservative government you didn't vote for.

Scotland's not a special case. It's only about 8% of the whole UK, yet you take more than 8% of the total spend.

I really wish the vote had been a Yes. It would have been so much better for us all, what with the oil price crashing, some estimates at the moment of $36 a barrel before the end of the year, meaning the north sea would be running at a loss. Not to mention Scotch sales drying up in the US reported today in the Telegraph.

So much for this 'booming economy' Salmond promised, it would be collapsing right about now.

Says it all really!

A Telegraph reader!

One needs to read a bit deeper and a bit wider I think Ziggy.

Don't believe everything the press tells you (They have an agenda don't you know)

a little more research before you start quoting figures is needed. Scotland more than pays for itself.


if you wished us Scots were not to be a burden to you maybe you should vote us out of the UK in a new referendum.

A recent study showed that it was people born outside Scotland that caused us not to split.



Watch out, the Scots are coming!

kev64 wrote:Usually vote labour, but not sure whilst mr Bean is in charge
might vote tory for a change as I quite fancy camerons missus

As for the policies, they all promise so much and deliver very little !

I also cannot forget what Thatcher did, we still have her legacy today !!

Bit like blaming all Germans for what Hitler did mate. None of them are going to please everyone, but I will say this. I'm self employed, and I can for certain say that things are a damn site better now than they were in 2010, plus I would be ashamed to say our nation had a leader like Ed Milliband, he is a total fcuking tw@, as is Ed Balls.



My vote will be Tory.

Jazzscot wrote: Says it all really!

A Telegraph reader!

One needs to read a bit deeper and a bit wider I think Ziggy.

Don't believe everything the press tells you (They have an agenda don't you know)

a little more research before you start quoting figures is needed. Scotland more than pays for itself.


if you wished us Scots were not to be a burden to you maybe you should vote us out of the UK in a new referendum.

A recent study showed that it was people born outside Scotland that caused us not to split.

Ditto really.

I assume you read one of the left wing papers or something. As you say, they have an agenda, and I am sure whatever you read has the same agenda.
Figures can be twisted and manipulated in whatever way suits. How do you think both sides of the debate argued totally different things based on the same figures?

The facts though are that Salmond's figures relied heavily on tax revenue from the oil. That's now less than half of what it was, and will be less in future.
Without the oil, Scotland is running a MASSIVE deficit. You're a teacher aren't you? So I assume you know the difference between deficit and debt, because many left wing politicians don't, and claim they'll "pay off" our deficit in the next parliament. Bull. A deficit can't be paid off, only balanced out.

As for research before quoting figures, which figures are incorrect, because the $36 I quoted clearly says 'some estimates' and I didn't claim any figures regarding Scotch sales drying up, though it's about £300 million less in 2014 than 2013, it's quoted in the Telegraph, but also various other sources:
http://www.cnbc.com/id/102552802

A quote from Churchill:
'Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance and the gospel of envy, it's inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery'

Socialism would be perfect if humans weren't such total cnuts. Human nature, greed and always wanting more than your neighbour will always be the downfall of any form of socialism.

There was a good quote in that recent film Interstellar.
When he realises that they've gone to that planet with no hope of saving mankind.
The other guy says to him, if you had have known you were coming here to start a new human race (from all the frozen eggs they have on the ship, the apparent 'back up' plan) then you wouldn't have come. However if you thought coming here could and would save your daughter and YOUR family, you are selfless and come without question.

Humans are selfish and greedy by nature. Nothing will change that.
Just look at what countries like the US and China are pumping into the atmosphere, regardless of whether or not it will cause catastrophe. They don't care, because all they want is short term profit and growth. There's no common human spirit or desire to further the human race, it's all about what we can get now for ourselves.

And that is why socialism will always be a total failure, no matter how good it sounds when it's spouted by millionaires like Miliband, Salmond and 'the wee lassie with the tin helmet'.

I don't read newspapers


I'm not a socialist

I'm not a fascist

I'm not a communist

I'm a human being who is compassionate about my fellow man and don't like to see one person gain at another's expense.


It's amazing the asumptions that can be leveled at someone without not actually knowing them.

Anyway, back to the simple poll thread.

I'm staying out of this...

Viva la revolution...

Viva El Presidente...

Viva the Vauxhall...

Viva the AA...

plus I would be ashamed to say our nation had a leader like Ed Milliband, he is a total fcuking tw@

He certainly came across as one the over night with Paxman. What a complete joke that was He has a worse face than what Blair had. I think they just do a lucky dip at one of the primary schools and then whoever's name they pull out they can stick them in charge. I doubt it would make much difference to how the country is run.

(:-})

Jazzscot wrote:I don't read newspapers


I'm not a socialist

I'm not a fascist

I'm not a communist

I'm a human being who is compassionate about my fellow man and don't like to see one person gain at another's expense.


It's amazing the asumptions that can be leveled at someone without not actually knowing them.

Anyway, back to the simple poll thread.

Fair enough.

As I said in my post, humans are cnuts in general. Look at what we've done to each other throughout history, and what we'll no doubt continue to do.

That is why socialism fails.

You may not consider yourself a socialist, but voting SNP or Labour is a direct vote for a socialist Britain.



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You may not consider yourself a socialist, but voting SNP or Labour is a direct vote for a socialist Britain.

That is crap. All that is , is a label, it means nothing. That's like saying there is a differance between labour and new labour. It don't really matter which party is in charge. What matters is what they do and how they go about doing things while in power. One things guaranteed is that they will always blame the previous party who was in charge once they are in power for anything that goes wrong.

Left wing, right wing, socialist, communist, whatever... all it is is labels. It means nothing. That's like saying if there was someone in charge that happened to be named Hitler is going to behave and be the same as Adolf Hitler.

(:-})

cybercarl wrote:

You may not consider yourself a socialist, but voting SNP or Labour is a direct vote for a socialist Britain.

That is crap. All that is , is a label, it means nothing. That's like saying there is a differance between labour and new labour. It don't really matter which party is in charge. What matters is what they do and how they go about doing things while in power. One things guaranteed is that they will always blame the previous party who was in charge once they are in power for anything that goes wrong.

Left wing, right wing, socialist, communist, whatever... all it is is labels. It means nothing. That's like saying if there was someone in charge that happened to be named Hitler is going to behave and be the same as Adolf Hitler.

(:-})

Not at all.

Yes it's a label, but it does mean something.

At one end, you have communism, where the state knows best. The state takes everything from everyone (other than the ruling officials) and 'distributes' apparently evenly.

At the other end, it's capitalism, where pure capitalism is like the wild west, every man for themselves, no social care at all.

Everything in between is on a scale.

The centre ground is take a little bit from everyone, taking more from the rich, and provide a safety net for the needy.

The conservatives are just right of this centre, preferring to try and encourage people to work hard and make money to succeed.
The problem is if you're unable to work hard and succeed, there's not much of a life for you. It'll never be easy.

Labour right now are more toward the 'communist' side of the scale than they were as new labour, with policies like:
Nationalisation of industries like the railways, energy firms etc
Heavy taxes on the rich to fund more for the poor (the state takes it from you to 'redistribute')

Ed Miliband said himself:

In a question-and-answer session, Mr Miliband was asked when he would “bring back socialism”. He replied: “That’s what we are doing, Sir.”

Under a left of centre government, the people working hard to get on in life are taxed more to fund an easier life for those that can't (or won't) work.

The problem with a left of centre labour party is what they consider rich.
They consider families earning a combined £80k to be 'rich'. Really? Because it doesn't seem like a lot of money to me with the cost of housing mortgages, food, fuel, energy & other bills.
They plan to lower the earnings at which you pay 40% down from £41k as it is now.
This will hit so many people. I already pay enough in tax and I'll be fcuked if I am going to pay any more for them to piss up the wall on guys like the 40 kids by 20 mothers chap in the paper today, costing the tax payer £2 million a year in benefits.

Chris I think you are getting a little heated mate,to be a socialist is something we should all aspire to be ,it means caring for everyone and I agree it is an impossible dream but I think people have become much more selfish in my lifetime,this I do blame the Tories for they encouraged the boom and bust economy where the dealers and rich get richer,capitalism can work as long as the wealth is more evenly distributed,unfortunately I am also self-employed in my family business shopfitting etc. We hate the Tories they killed the building trade ,we are nearly bankrupt after 48 years , my father has seen it all in his time and will not vote now,this country is going to the dogs I wish I had emigrated,by the way the country is run by the civil service ,it's the government that fcuks stuff up.

all politicians should take a compulsory maths exam before they can stand for office.+ an English test so they understand the words defacite and economy

adyf wrote:Chris I think you are getting a little heated mate,to be a socialist is something we should all aspire to be ,it means caring for everyone and I agree it is an impossible dream but I think people have become much more selfish in my lifetime,this I do blame the Tories for they encouraged the boom and bust economy where the dealers and rich get richer,capitalism can work as long as the wealth is more evenly distributed,unfortunately I am also self-employed in my family business shopfitting etc. We hate the Tories they killed the building trade ,we are nearly bankrupt after 48 years , my father has seen it all in his time and will not vote now,this country is going to the dogs I wish I had emigrated,by the way the country is run by the civil service ,it's the government that fcuks stuff up.

Meh, politics and religion eh?

Always gets heated.

Don't get me wrong, I did say that socialism sounds GREAT in practice. The problem lies with the vast swathes of the population that are just total cnuts and will step on anyone to get ahead. There'll always be someone that's got more than you, there's always someone who wants what you've got, and give them half a chance, they'll take it from you.

You're entitled to your opinions, but I really don't think it was the Tories that encouraged boom and bust. What was it Gordon Brown said in the early years, something about him putting an end to boom and bust?
Well 2000 to 2007 was the biggest boom ever, and 2008 was the biggest bust ever. Absolutely nothing to do with the Tories. All to do with the de-regulation of the banks by the Labour government.

Watch this space, we're in another boom now, and the next bust will make the last look like a warm up.
The debt that caused the last one has multiplied, and it's now on the books of the governments around the world, not the banks.
The US has put in place a 'bail in' law where the bank's customers, i.e. you and me will have money taken away to re-capitalise the banks next time this happens. Remember Cyprus a couple of years ago? They froze everyone's account, rationed money supply, and anyone with over a certain amount had it taken away?
Well the next time it happens, it will be world wide - or at least western world wide.
Just watch what happens to vast numbers of small companies when their current accounts get frozen and then raided. Bear in mind small companies employ something like 90% of us in this country.
The next bust will see radical changes.

Ed Miliband said himself:

In a question-and-answer session, Mr Miliband was asked when he would “bring back socialism”. He replied: “That’s what we are doing, Sir.”

Points taken onboard accept if he gets into power what stops him doing something totally different. It's only words at the end of the day to try and win the race.

80 k a year is an absolute fortune...stinking rich to someone at the other end of the scale on a basic wage or unemployed and/or homeless, mentally ill or disabled and living off the state or whatever. But yes 80 k is not going to buy a house, maybe up North it will but down south you could not buy a dustbin for that. The problem is the pisstakers like mr 40 kids by 20 woman. I was shocked when I saw clips of that on TV. There should be a cut off point for people like that and not only between his legs. Ady comes up with some very valid points, it's about caring for others as a whole. We all seem to only care about ourselves and our own circumstances which I guess is how people decide which way to vote It''s also the same line of thought I believe the majority of MP's take when they are in power, looking out for no 1 and stuff the rest.

There was comment made on TV a few weeks back. I can't remember the story exactly, but it was something along the lines of Cameroon saying that IIRC parliament looks and feels like being at being school Yeh maybe at Eaten, Hogwarts or wherever. Some school child phoned in and said it looks nothing like school what;s he talking about. I think that just about sums up how out of touch they are with real people. Not the lucky ones that where dished out an ace card at birth.

(:-})