Muslim Intergration??

[Salty Dog]

Well said Budd.
A view a lot of my friends in Oz also share.
I know its easy to blow out of proportion in times so close to an attack.
We will continue to live a wonderful life here, of freedoms... but I live in a country/coastal area... No imagrants of any type here.
But I do see a change in our Cities, especially Sydney and Melbourne where the major concentrations are.

It is early days for Australia, we don't have Muslim Courts, we don't have Muslim in holding seats in Parliament, but already I've seen changes to panda to the minority group.
Special areas constructed at Public Swimming Pools so Muslims can swim in private.
On one hand I see this is making it a public pool, for ALL public, including Muslims.
One the other hand, I also see this as pandering to one particular sect in our community.
And pushing a further divide.
And we aren't even talking about extremists here.... just normal Muslims.

[fabiostar]

anybody taking bets how well UKIP do at the next elections lol.. from reading these posts id say not to bad lol

[agentpineapple]

once again it's the minority doing the damage, most muslims are honest hard working people, but it does seem that the they have a greater percentage of extremists than most.
as for intergration, it's hard to say, when i'm in the uk, I stay in the heart of the east end, the london borough of tower hamlets has got one of the highest percentages of muslims than any where else in the uk. in my experience I would say they don't try to intergrate.
sad but true.
as for deportation of a muslim that has committed a serious crime, well seen as most muslims in the uk were born in the uk, they already live in their country of birth. most muslims are 2nd, 3rd, 4th generation.
and that's a good thing, when you think that the vast majority of uk born muslims have not been in trouble and have worked hard, all be it they haven't really intergrated.
some one mentioned minimum wage, this bugs me, if our social security system was tighter, the uk's work dodgers would have to fill the minimum wage jobs, it wouldn't matter what colour or religion, although I blame those pesky Hungarians , but it would put a stop/slow down economic migrancy to the uk, it really bugs me as the only real winners are the employers.
yes our politians are afraid of being branded racist, so are the police. yes it pisses me off that we get festive greetings and not merry Christmas. but I doubt i'll be alive to see it change back.
I did read a few months ago, how the muslim population is increasing at such a rate that by 2050 they will have the largest population in the world, and I can't remember who said it, but they said that muslims will conquer the world without using weapons, I think it might have been gaddafi.

[VTRDark]

pity she omitted to mention the amount of peaceful American compared to those that invade other countries...perhaps causing the retaliation in the first place.

And the UK We're in it together. Mmmmm now where have I heard that before.

I wont go into a rant but what I will say.....it saves on going abroad for a holiday to experience other cultures. The big difference being when I go abroad I like to experience that countries culture which is partly the point of going abroad. Learn a bit of their lingo and the locals appreciate it. Who in their right mind wants fish and chips when you go to Spain

I was shocked to hear about the events in Sydney. I thought things where a lot tighter over there. I watched a programme that showed a guantanamo bay style concentration camp IIRC in the northern territory somewhere in the middle of nowhere where they lock all immigrants/refugees/asylum seekers up until it's proven they are genuine asylum seekers etc before letting them loose.

You also have special forces (including enlisted Abo's) hiding out in the bush monitoring the waters out there. You have issues from the Indonesian/Malaysian side of things. IIRC this is also linked to the oil industry and the trading that goes on. Personally I'm not sure it's mortally right for Oz to be trading with certain countries. Maybe this is one of the routes in. And on a side note the tankers are ripping up your reefs.

I wouldn't underestimate your security services either. There's a lot that goes on behind the scenes just like here that nobody hears about. After all... most of the Oz security services are trained by us

(:-})

[chric]

Me i was over the moon when i found a London chippy in magaluf.

[Salty Dog]

Seems some good responses here.

I'd probably like to re title the thread at this point to "What can Australia learn from the UK, France, Belgium, Sweden, Netherlands, in relation to Muslim Imagration".

We have clearly addressed the problems, but what's a reasonable solution?

Maybe like Vadimir Putins speech, as politically incorrect it may sound. it hits the nail on the head.

“In Russia live Russians. Any minority, from anywhere, if it wants to live in Russia, to work and eat in Russia, should speak Russian, and should respect the Russian laws.

If they prefer Sharia Law, then we advise them to go to those places where that’s the state law.

Russia does not need minorities. Minorities need Russia, and we will not grant them special privileges, or try to change our laws to fit their desires, no matter how loud they yell ‘discrimination’.

We better learn from the suicides of America, England, Holland and France, if we are to survive as a nation.

The Russian customs and traditions are not compatible with the lack of culture or the primitive ways of most minorities.

When this honorable legislative body thinks of creating new laws, it should have in mind the national interest first, observing that the minorities are not Russians.

[chric]

Why what did he say please.
is there a solution other than allowing only certain faiths or colours in
that's not a raceist rant either.

[Salty Dog]

I don't consider his speech racist. I consider it factual and to the point and upholding the rights of his country.
At least he has a position on the matter.
He is not saying Muslims aren't welcome.... he is just telling them how it is.

Perhaps hard for those Muslim born there, but really, their parents should have already understood this and instilled it in their up-bringing.

Not sure Russia is a place that would interest the Islam Extremist either, they seem to like soft targets with women and children and politically correct piss weak governments, well in the west at least.
Not people that might mow them down with machine guns at the first sign of political demands causing public unrest.

Anyway, i'd like to consider the extremists as another kettle of fish entirely.
But before i move on, the Gunman in the latest Sydney Hostage situation, was on our Welfare (Dole), and had also used up $160,000 AUD in Legal Aid defending himself in court for his many previous charges! And then he thanks us by taking Australian Hostage and killing 2 of them.
I can appreciate this nutter doesn't represent the peaceful Muslims that live in Australia.
But at the same time, he wasn't Greek, Italian, Chinese, Japanese, Dutch, Malaysian, he was an Iranian Muslim.

Going to KL, Malaysia i was surrounded by Muslims, all seemed well, but... i was in their country, not the reverse.
I also sat in a Grand Stand full of Muslims at the Moto GP, it was great fun, sure they all perv at a white girl with blonde hair.
But at the end of the day, my GF commented and said, wasn't it great to be in a crowd where they didn't get pissed and obnoxious as the day went on. They were the same at the end of the day as at the start of the day.

I did however see some pissed and loud Moto GP supporters.... yep you guessed it.. Aussies!

I also at one point needed to a to take a piss real fast and ran into what i thought was the Male public toilet with my ol mate already out and in my hand.... then as my eyes adjusted to the lighting inside, i realised i'd just run into a Prayer Room... with my chop out!
Yep, i got out of there real fast!

So needless to say, i didn't look real good in their eyes either.

[Stephan]

Maybe like Vadimir Putins speech, as politically incorrect it may sound.
“In Russia live Russians. Any minority, from anywhere, if it wants to live in Russia, to work and eat in Russia, should speak Russian, and should respect the Russian laws.

hate to agree with Putin, this is exactly the treatment you get from any muslim majority at any place, regardles actual state borders. With one difference, from muslims you have less chance you alive. It is ill and stupid to support integration for religion (equal muslim people) which is demonstrating to destroy our civilization.

[Salty Dog]

So as far as Integration goes.

Islam

The Quran (verse 4:3) limits the number of wives to four and only if a man could treat them with fairness and equity. Most families in the Islamic world are monogamous as the rule is a conditional permission not a recommendation.[109][110]

On this point, i personally don't care, one Wife is hard enough, good to them if they want 4!
But, how does that fit into a Western Society with Western Laws?
Do they abide by local laws? Or wish to start their own? What has happened in the UK or Europe?

Islam

According to Islam, it is lawful for male masters to have sexual relations with female captives and slaves,[111] regardless of whether the slave woman gives her consent.[112]

How does that work does work in a Western Society?? FFS, there is no way that will be accepted!
Once again, what has happened in the UK and Europe?

There are other beliefs they hold, in relation to upholding their faith, or more importantly, the actions they are "allowed" to take against those that oppose it.

Which sometimes makes me wonder, why do they want to come to these Western Countries in the first place?
If we are so bad in their eyes. Perhaps they love the Welfare and Free Money too much.

It is obviously not a problem if they are willing conform and abide and respect the laws of their new country.
And you'd hope and expect that most do, after all, they have been in this country for a long time now... without too much trouble.
But how long does that last for?? Just long enough until they have reasonable numbers perhaps? Then start asking for change?
I think the problems started to appear in Oz, when we started to take in Boat People and Refugees, middle aged and new to Australia, straight out of the Middle East.

Another new issue we have had in Australia is Halal Certification on Foods.
Forcing companies to pay a hefty fee to have the Halal symbol stamped on foods, so it is safe for Muslims to eat.
Have you in the UK also had to deal with this?

[budd]

[quote="Salty Dog"
Islam

According to Islam, it is lawful for male masters to have sexual relations with female captives and slaves,[111] regardless of whether the slave woman gives her consent.[112]

How does that work does work in a Western Society?? FFS, there is no way that will be accepted!
Once again, what has happened in the UK and Europe?
[/quote]

This is one of the reasons some Asian males feel it is OK to molest, rape and generally abuse white girls (some as young as 11) in many inner cities they simply don't understand the concept of consent with regard to none Muslim women, Rotherham is only the tip of the iceberg.

[Varastorm]

Very sad news about what happened in Australia.

I just read this,

( http://www.blacklistednews.com/5_Reason ... 8/Y/M.html )

This is my take on the media. ( )

This is my take on religion. ( )

[bigtwinthing]

Wow Budd for prime Minister very good points there.

[VTRDark]

I tell you what has surprised me...is the increase in females becoming extremists. How about the girl at Heathrow this morning.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-30520152

I think the answer is to pull out of all these countries we are going to war with and trying to convert them to our ways. Like trying to introduce democracy in countries like Afgan. What right do we have try to tell them how to live.

I would also put a stop to the media publicising everything as this I feel breeds the anger and hatred. I do wonder how much of it is spread down from government for political purposes. Brainwash us into believing there are good reasons for going into these countries. Yet again this is breeds anger and hatred. We are as much to blame as them. What goes around comes around and all that. We invade them, they invade us.

(:-})

[Salty Dog]

I think the answer is to pull out of all these countries we are going to war with and trying to convert them to our ways.
(:-})

I totally agree cybercarl, and that was a point i brought up on an Australian forum too, which got shot down.
But i am hearing you.

It is no wonder some of these extremists wish to attack us at times, as look what we do to them!
Now... Extremists are one thing, Peaceful Muslims another.... But as it seems that they get tarred with the same brush in times of crisis, i agree with you.

It piss's me off that we have to go and help America fight their wars, or what ever it is this week.... We were fine and living happily until we got dragged in under the "Alliance"... To help them secure some cheap oil.
Yet, sadly our Government needs the US in case we get into strife and need someone else to come and help us.

I always come to an argument with a fellow Aussie over this, they claim we have too, if we don't, then blah blah and blah blah will happen... which is mostly based around Muslims coming to take over in the name of the Holy War.

Hence, this gets me right back to where i started in this thread.....

What has happened in the UK and Europe? Have they tried to take over? Or are they just trying to fit in?