Back again, and as yet i have still not managed to find the cause of my running problems, to recap the bike runs fine all through the rev range in neutral or in gear on a paddock stand no problems. But as soon as you take it out on the road and get to about 6 thou on the revs it feels like either a missfire or fuel starvation.
Luckily a friend of mine has a storm and we have had a swapping session or two to try and find the problem, so far we have changed or replaced as follows :
1. Spark plugs
2. Leads
3. Coils
4. Rectifier
5. Both electronic control units in the tail
6. Carbs
7. Air box & filter
8. Fuel tank
we've also checked all the wiring to and from all the relevant bits for continuity plus all the electrical checks for every thing on the ignition system that its possible to check.
We've replaced the cam chain on the front cylinder to get the timing to line up as this problem has all come about following a CCT failure on the front cylinder, the CCT also caused damage to the valves in the front cylinder and all four of these have been replaced (by a garage who are not interested in the problem, but thats another story!)
Has anyone got any other ideas, i've spoken to Roger at Revolution and and tried everything he suggested but still no joy.
Could there be an issue with the valves that have been replaced, what would happen if they have not be seated correctly when replaced?
Any ideas please!, at the moment a can of petrol and a match seems like a good idea!!!.
Any suggestions welcomed.
Still struggling with running problems at high rev, HELP!
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CountryBoy
- Posts: 39
- Joined: Tue May 30, 2006 3:48 pm
- Location: Devon
Still struggling with running problems at high rev, HELP!
I can't read nor rite but i can drive a tracor!
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CountryBoy
- Posts: 39
- Joined: Tue May 30, 2006 3:48 pm
- Location: Devon
also!
Forgot to also mention that although the valves have been replaced as far as i can tell the shims have not been and i know i had shims fitted on a service a long while back could this be a factor?
I can't read nor rite but i can drive a tracor!
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Stormin Ben
- Posts: 1234
- Joined: Sun Dec 01, 2002 12:23 am
- Location: Birmingham
Bummer, sorry to hear you're still struggling
My thoughts would be
Does it stop dead at 6000 (eg like its hit the rev limiter?) - swap clocks?
Still sounds like something is leaking to earth. Are the battery connections clean and tight?
When you say it revs ok in neutral, is that blasting it up to high revs or going up to high revs slowly (ie opening the throttle gently, adding say 500 revs at a time) -could be that the dead zone is only a few hundred revs wide so when you've got no load on it revs throught this point on inertia but when you're on the road it doesn't have that inertia and consequently bogs down?
When the problem occurs while you're out riding, can you pull the clutch in and rev it?
If you get to the misfire point in say 5th and then drop it down 1 or 2 gears so its above it, does it still misfire or will it now rev?
Is the ignition pickup on the end of the crank clean? -try swopping the sensor over?
My thoughts would be
Does it stop dead at 6000 (eg like its hit the rev limiter?) - swap clocks?
Still sounds like something is leaking to earth. Are the battery connections clean and tight?
When you say it revs ok in neutral, is that blasting it up to high revs or going up to high revs slowly (ie opening the throttle gently, adding say 500 revs at a time) -could be that the dead zone is only a few hundred revs wide so when you've got no load on it revs throught this point on inertia but when you're on the road it doesn't have that inertia and consequently bogs down?
When the problem occurs while you're out riding, can you pull the clutch in and rev it?
If you get to the misfire point in say 5th and then drop it down 1 or 2 gears so its above it, does it still misfire or will it now rev?
Is the ignition pickup on the end of the crank clean? -try swopping the sensor over?
I've got an inferiority complex
But its not a very good one!
But its not a very good one!
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CountryBoy
- Posts: 39
- Joined: Tue May 30, 2006 3:48 pm
- Location: Devon
Stormin Ben
Ben,
It does'nt stop dead, it will struggle higher up the rev range but it is a struggle, where is the limiter and how does it work, could it be comming in early intermittantly?
I'll check all the earths again for good connection
If its in neutral or in gear on a paddock stand it will rev as high as you like in a blast or reving up gradually no problem, likewise when riding if you pull the clutch in whilst rolling and rev no problem either.
Also it does'nt matter which gear your in, if in say fifth below 6 thou on the revs and then drop a gear so your above 6 thou the problem comes straight in.
Is the ignition pickup the little module on the inside of the clutch casing?
Do you think there is any mileage in the valves being an issue?
It does'nt stop dead, it will struggle higher up the rev range but it is a struggle, where is the limiter and how does it work, could it be comming in early intermittantly?
I'll check all the earths again for good connection
If its in neutral or in gear on a paddock stand it will rev as high as you like in a blast or reving up gradually no problem, likewise when riding if you pull the clutch in whilst rolling and rev no problem either.
Also it does'nt matter which gear your in, if in say fifth below 6 thou on the revs and then drop a gear so your above 6 thou the problem comes straight in.
Is the ignition pickup the little module on the inside of the clutch casing?
Do you think there is any mileage in the valves being an issue?
I can't read nor rite but i can drive a tracor!
I think I know what your problem is as I had exactly the same after a CCT failure; you won't like the answer 
The crankshaft can be put out of true when the valves hit the pistons. If this happens, as the timing is taken off the end of the crank, at these revs you will start to get a misfire.
I had to buy a replacement secondhand engine.
Or, maybe, the vlave timing is just out - it will run fime, but if you whack the throttle open at about 6000 rpm you will get a "misfire/bog down" I know this becasue the guy who refitted the engine didn't time the valves properly when he replaced the CCT and the local Honda dealer (C J Ball in Norwich - brilliant) sorted it.
Let's hope its the second one - if not - ebay here you come!
The crankshaft can be put out of true when the valves hit the pistons. If this happens, as the timing is taken off the end of the crank, at these revs you will start to get a misfire.
I had to buy a replacement secondhand engine.
Or, maybe, the vlave timing is just out - it will run fime, but if you whack the throttle open at about 6000 rpm you will get a "misfire/bog down" I know this becasue the guy who refitted the engine didn't time the valves properly when he replaced the CCT and the local Honda dealer (C J Ball in Norwich - brilliant) sorted it.
Let's hope its the second one - if not - ebay here you come!
Hi there,
just read about your problem, ihad this exact same problem last year after a front cct failed, it drove me round the bend,tried everything like you have until i had the valves recut and ground back into head and set the valve clearances.problem gone!!! All ican think is the valves werent seating properly Now 4000 miles without a glitch.
cheers John W
just read about your problem, ihad this exact same problem last year after a front cct failed, it drove me round the bend,tried everything like you have until i had the valves recut and ground back into head and set the valve clearances.problem gone!!! All ican think is the valves werent seating properly Now 4000 miles without a glitch.
cheers John W
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Stormin Ben
- Posts: 1234
- Joined: Sun Dec 01, 2002 12:23 am
- Location: Birmingham
Valves do sound like a possible culprit
Also worth checking (coz its a problem I've seen before) is that the air filter isn't getting sucked onto the carb trumpets at higher revs?
Obviously its unlikely to happen with a standard Honda one but an aftermarket one?
Check its not slightly dished
Finally (for now -just waiting for windows updates then I've gotta go!!) it could be fuelling
If the diaphram in the fuel tap has a split then it could be starving the engine of fuel
You can eliminate it by removing the diaphram completely (kame your own seal for the outside of the tap though) and blocking up the vacuum hole
All the diaphram does is effectively turn the fuel off when the motor's not running
Also worth checking (coz its a problem I've seen before) is that the air filter isn't getting sucked onto the carb trumpets at higher revs?
Obviously its unlikely to happen with a standard Honda one but an aftermarket one?
Check its not slightly dished
Finally (for now -just waiting for windows updates then I've gotta go!!) it could be fuelling
If the diaphram in the fuel tap has a split then it could be starving the engine of fuel
You can eliminate it by removing the diaphram completely (kame your own seal for the outside of the tap though) and blocking up the vacuum hole
All the diaphram does is effectively turn the fuel off when the motor's not running
I've got an inferiority complex
But its not a very good one!
But its not a very good one!
CCT - Me too!
my front cct failed a few weeks ago, on a 10k 98 'storm, probably not helped by spending a day trying to keep up with my mate on his new speed triple..... 
Anyway, I'm in same boat as a few of you, tearing my hair out after rebuilding it only to find.... a misfire at 6k, EXACTLY the same as Country Boy describes!
I stripped the head off tonight and there was no damage to any valves at all. I have a feeling that it'll still misfire tomorrow when I build it back up.
Anyone solved this yet? I spoke to a few honda techs and they were stumped too!
One thing that is odd. There is a small brown pipe (about a 3mm bore) that is routed up the right hand side of the main frame, through a clip about halfway along the frame, to nowhere! it just sits there looking like it needs to be attached to something! The other end of the pipe runs under the bike and goes to a T piece, then it splits into two pipes that are both oped to air under the bike, so I assume its a drain hose, but from what???? any ideas????
Help! before I torch it and buy a speed triple with the insurance money
Hi VTRmart,
I may be talking out of my rear here, but as I suggested to CountryBoy in a returned pm (I've not heard back from him yet) wouldn't it be a good idea to put your bike on a dyno-meter, you need to speak to someone who runs a dyno about this, but my way of thinking is that any problems underload (such as your misfire at 6,000 revs) would then show up on the computer whats actually causing it, before as in CountryBoys case splash out on another engine
or in your case having to go through everything either replacing it or swapping it over from a friends bike
So for the price of a phone call you could find out if my idea is possible
My only thoughts on that pipe work could it be that previous owner had set it up for a Scott-oiler and had a tee piece fitted for balancing the carbs
is the single open end anywhere near one of the take off points for balancing the carbs
Chris.
I may be talking out of my rear here, but as I suggested to CountryBoy in a returned pm (I've not heard back from him yet) wouldn't it be a good idea to put your bike on a dyno-meter, you need to speak to someone who runs a dyno about this, but my way of thinking is that any problems underload (such as your misfire at 6,000 revs) would then show up on the computer whats actually causing it, before as in CountryBoys case splash out on another engine
or in your case having to go through everything either replacing it or swapping it over from a friends bike So for the price of a phone call you could find out if my idea is possible
My only thoughts on that pipe work could it be that previous owner had set it up for a Scott-oiler and had a tee piece fitted for balancing the carbs
is the single open end anywhere near one of the take off points for balancing the carbs Chris.
The tube is just a vent and they do have the T piece standard. Once the throttle has been help WOT for a while the carb balancing is not in the equation as this only effects the slides when they are not fully open.
Double check the cam timing, letters (FT or RT) and the (-) to be central in the inspection window, NOT the lettering on it's own as this will put the cams one tooth out.
Double check the cam timing, letters (FT or RT) and the (-) to be central in the inspection window, NOT the lettering on it's own as this will put the cams one tooth out.
Thanks for the tips guys.
I'm not giving up on her just yet, I'm waiting for a head gasket to arrive before I can start the rebuild, and then I'll go through everything one stage at a time.....
Although the vavles didn't hit when the CCT went, is it possible that the cam chain got damaged?
If it isn't anything mechanical, its fuel or electrics I guess....
I'll keep you all posted!
I'm not giving up on her just yet, I'm waiting for a head gasket to arrive before I can start the rebuild, and then I'll go through everything one stage at a time.....
Although the vavles didn't hit when the CCT went, is it possible that the cam chain got damaged?
If it isn't anything mechanical, its fuel or electrics I guess....
I'll keep you all posted!
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Squiffythewombat
- Posts: 1406
- Joined: Sun Apr 17, 2005 1:51 pm
- Location: Canterbury, Kent
- Contact:
could the problem maybe be with the alternator?
As the front CCT goes could it put too much through it? Ive had the alternator break on a couple of bikes and its a very similar feeling of no power while under load.
Not good with mecanics but throwing things in the mix, doesnt seem to of been mentioned anywhere yet and the procedure for checking it is easy with a multimeter!
As the front CCT goes could it put too much through it? Ive had the alternator break on a couple of bikes and its a very similar feeling of no power while under load.
Not good with mecanics but throwing things in the mix, doesnt seem to of been mentioned anywhere yet and the procedure for checking it is easy with a multimeter!
Squiffy_The_Wombat
Eagles may soar but wombats dont get sucked into jet engines!!
Eagles may soar but wombats dont get sucked into jet engines!!
Fixed!
Finally put the engine back together and took it for a spin this morning on the way to work..... It's fixed! I no longer have the misfire at 6k
I'm not actually sure how I fixed it, all I did was re-lap in the vavles in the front cylinder head, but it worked.
I think either re-lapping the valves cured it (but my valves didn't get knocked when the CCT went, so I can't understand why this is the case)
OR
Stripping it and rebuilding it all carefully cured it... maybe I had a loose connection or something, but I'm pretty careful so I don't think I had missed anything first time round....
Anyway, I hope this helps others with the same problem!