Oh no...another oil question

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jchesshyre
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Oh no...another oil question

Post by jchesshyre »

I've been using Castrol Power1 10W40 (semi synthetic) for ages, both in my Firestorm and in my CB500 (well 10W30 in that case which is specified instead of 10W40 for some reason) on which I racked up a sh*tload of miles (145,000).

It's occurred to me that I could instead use Halford's own fully synthetic 5W40 which, despite being a considerably higher spec oil on paper, is cheaper at £35 for 5L (£7/L) instead of £30 for 4L (£7.60/L). I do a fair few miles so this price difference is worth considering.

Firstly, Halford's own brand oils are made by Comma so I'm not too worried about the quality.

Secondly, before anyone jumps in with 'don't use fully synthetic, it'll cause clutch slip' - the oil in question is specifically stated as being suitable for wet clutches (see the photo of the bottle on the technical data sheet here http://www.commaoil.com/passenger-vehic ... s/view/271). I've also used the Castrol fully synthetic (Power1 Racing) a few times and never had any problems either.

So my question is, am I better off with a cheaper higher-spec oil than a more expensive lower-spec oil? Or, if these Halfords/Comma oils are totally fine should I even just use the semi-synthetic version which is £29 for 5L (£5.80/L)? This one is specified as API SG and JASO MA which as we know still meets the 'SE, SF or SG' specified by Honda.

However...I do take my bikes to the full 8,000 miles between oil and filter changes (bet that'll set the cat among the pigeons), which served me fine for 145,000 miles on the CB500 which spent most of its life between 6 and 9k rpm, and also hope to take my Firestorm over 100,000 (currently on 52,000).

And I guess the other question I'm asking is, just because a cheaper oil is given a certain rating, does its cheapness perhaps suggest that it will not keep this rating for as long as a more expensive oil? Or is the price difference likely to be just down to marketing/branding? In any case, surely the fully synthetic Halford's/Comma should hold its rating longer than any semi-synthetic?

Oh and the other thing is, I always have to buy a 1L bottle of oil to top up in between changes, so buying a 5L bottle, as the Halford's ones are, would be more convenient than the 4L Castrol bottles.

This isn't so much an urgent question (I've got 3,000 miles till my next oil change), more an invitation to another fascinating, chin-stroking oil discussion :lol: Although I am also looking to save some money on what I see as a rather over-priced essential ingredient...
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AMCQ46
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Re: Oh no...another oil question

Post by AMCQ46 »

i tried the same and got clutch slip with the Halfords oil and went back to Castrol... but every firestorm can be unique, so just try it
AMcQ
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Stephan
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Re: Oh no...another oil question

Post by Stephan »

True full synthetic will cause clutch slip because clutch plates on storm are from old generation material not used on today bikes. Put aftermarket clutch plates and you will have no problem.
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podman
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Re: Oh no...another oil question

Post by podman »

I have used Halfords semi synth in all my four strokes for quite some time, a lot of brand snobbery goes around with products such as oil(and petrol for that matter) , as long as you change it when it should be changed, I think statistically an engine will last no more or less on any oil meeting the engines specs.

A good friend of mine who is a proper tight butt runs has run his bikes for as long as I can remember bikes on cheap 10/40 car oil with no problems...his VFR800 did 65k on car oil and was still going well when he sold it on.

Not that I would do that but it does illustrate different peoples thoughts and perhaps prejudices..Go with what ever makes you feel comfortable..
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Wicky
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Re: Oh no...another oil question

Post by Wicky »

Buy 205L of Smith & Allan Motorcycle Oil 10w-40 Semi Synthetic for £482.55 :thumbup: (£2.35/L)

http://www.smithandallan.com/products/t ... synthetic/

or this superior quality oil from Italy

http://www.artimondo.co.uk/italian-extr ... 7QodGYgM9Q
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MacV2
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Re: Oh no...another oil question

Post by MacV2 »

Wicky wrote:Buy 205L of Smith & Allan Motorcycle Oil 10w-40 Semi Synthetic for £482.55 :thumbup: (£2.35/L)

http://www.smithandallan.com/products/t ... synthetic/

or this superior quality oil from Italy

http://www.artimondo.co.uk/italian-extr ... 7QodGYgM9Q
Been using the Smith & Allan stuff for a while now, on me second 20ltr drum...£10 per 4lts... :thumbup:
Making up since 2007, sometimes it's true...Honest...
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xeris
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Re: Oh no...another oil question

Post by xeris »

If you use the grade(s) and classification recommended by Honda, use a reasonable OCI (oil change interval) for the type of base stock (conventional, semi and full synthetic) just about any oil will do. Current top classification oils are truly miracle fluids. I would not use any oil that doesn't have the JASCO rating or says that it meets that rating. This is important for the health of the clutch, though some will dispute this.
The important difference, for me, is shift quality and how long that quality lasts. In general full synthetics offer the potential for a better, longer period of good shift quality. That said, different makes of bikes seem to often "like" different brands of oil.
While full synthetics generally have better shear stability than mineral base oils, a big spread in the grade numbers seems to hurt shear stability in both. That is a 5w-40 will be less shear stable than the same oil with a grade of 10w-40. I think that you will find that with any 5w-40 the shift quality will degrade much sooner than the OCI.
If you want waste a huge amount of time reading about oil go here:https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/u ... um_summary
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jchesshyre
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Re: Oh no...another oil question

Post by jchesshyre »

I guess in a way my question boils down to: does a mid-range synthetic offer longer-lasting protection than a top-range semi synthetic?
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xeris
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Re: Oh no...another oil question

Post by xeris »

Well that is the OCD question. The only way I know of is to pick an oil run it for your oil change interval and then send the oil off for a used oil analysis. Otherwise you're just stumbling around in the dark, which is good enough for most people. Or you could just pick a top-tier oil with the right grade and and classification and never look back. Don't overthink this.
“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”
~ Mark Twain
jchesshyre
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Re: Oh no...another oil question

Post by jchesshyre »

You're right : ) I don't want to overthink it. Although that's partly why I've made this post, in case anyone knows the answer from experience so I don't have to overthink it :lol:
xeris wrote:Or you could just pick a top-tier oil with the right grade and and classification and never look back.
This is basically what I've been doing by just sticking with Castrol Power1, but every time an oil change comes up I get a bit resentful at having to pay over £30 for four litres of oil and I wonder if I can spend less without shortening the life of my engine...

I must say the Smith & Allen stuff is extremely tempting...

Perhaps with the miles I'm doing I really should do what xeris suggests and try a cheaper oil and then send it off for analysis. If I do I will certainly post about it here :o
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budd
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Re: Oh no...another oil question

Post by budd »

cheapest 'quality' 10/40 I can find is from M&P 5litre of ipone 10.4 @ £26 with free delivery and a filter thrown in
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Honda-CBR-600 ... SwLVZV6gmd
I've now gone all European and bought a KTM Superduke GT and Aprilia RSV1000R :D ,
Storm is now gone :cry: .
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