I Bought It With a Knock

[Big_Jim59]

You could most likely buy new collets pretty cheap.(:-})

That's what I was thinking.

There was something strange I noticed. When I was riding the bike and before the collets let go, I felt that my carb sync had gone a-rye. The throttle was not pulling the carbs up together. I pulled the bike back into the shop and put the carb stick on it. Sure enough it was way out. I noticed that the front vacuum hose was full of gas and I thought this strange. I also had trouble getting the carbs to sync up as it kept drifting in and out. I finally got it set close and it felt better. Fifteen miles latter it was toast. I am thinking that the valve was not closing properly and I was getting blow back and false vacuum readings.

[sirch345]

I'm sorry to hear about the latest issue Jim, hopefully for your sake this will sort it out properly.

I'd say your theory on the carb balancing, the valve not closing completely could certainly be it,

Chris.

[Big_Jim59]

I broke my own rule with this bike. Usually, when I purchase a bike project, I know something about the history. I like to buy them from the original owner so that I can find out what happened, how the bike was treated and then I can get a sense of what kind of work will be involved. With this project I have been flying blind. All I really know for sure is the original owner was deliberately deceptive with the guy I got it from. And for all I know that guy was blowing smoke too. I'll get it right in the end but it would have been nice to be able to start with a better understanding of what I was getting into. This engine had some real problems. It is still a fun project but I am getting tired of taking it apart. This is the problem with falling in love with a problem child. I found a 2003 VTR in Houston (300 miles from my house). It has been thrown down the road and has no title but the engine is good. It's looking really good to me at this point.

[Stephan]

Take a little break. I believe you've done all the major work and are just close from good working engine after general repair.

[AMCQ46]

Putting in a known good engine could save a lot more heart ache, it's a real shame that that crashed bike didn't show it's self till after all the new parts you have thrown at your engine

[sirch345]

I broke my own rule with this bike. Usually, when I purchase a bike project, I know something about the history. I like to buy them from the original owner so that I can find out what happened, how the bike was treated and then I can get a sense of what kind of work will be involved. With this project I have been flying blind. All I really know for sure is the original owner was deliberately deceptive with the guy I got it from. And for all I know that guy was blowing smoke too. I'll get it right in the end but it would have been nice to be able to start with a better understanding of what I was getting into. This engine had some real problems. It is still a fun project but I am getting tired of taking it apart. This is the problem with falling in love with a problem child. I found a 2003 VTR in Houston (300 miles from my house). It has been thrown down the road and has no title but the engine is good. It's looking really good to me at this point.

I can fully understand how you are feeling right now, I would probably be the same, but you've put a lot of work, time and money into that engine to get it to this stage. Therefore it's got to be worth going that little bit further to fix the valve problem.

Getting back to that crashed bike with a good engine, unless you know for a fact that engine is good, history etc, you'd still be breaking your own rule

Taking a little break (as Stephan suggests) could be a good idea for a few days,

Chris.

[VTRDark]

Getting back to that crashed bike with a good engine, unless you know for a fact that engine is good, history etc, you'd still be breaking your own rule

Taking a little break (as Stephan suggests) could be a good idea for a few days

I agree with this too.

Don't go sticking a complete lump in from an Unknown or word of mouth. It's only top end your concerned with now so transplant heads on your good block. Maybe then you can have a play with the ones you remove from the bike now. A bit of port and clean maybe. A little project for a later date.

(:-})

[Big_Jim59]

Well, I have been on a self imposed break since my parts are winding their way through our postal system. I have stripped the head and looked at the valve and seats and, except for the bent intake valve, it all looks really good. My biggest problem is the "why?" Here I have a broken collier. I have actually never seen this before. I have done a bit of Internet research and it does happen but, more than likely through faulty assembly. I find it difficult to believe it came from the factory this way. I can fix the problems but unless I can identity the cause there is still that huge question mark hanging over the project. It is a fantastic bike though!

Even though the riding position is more racer oriented than my VFR it still feels pretty good. I was not uncomfortable at all. I just have to remember to pick my feet up higher to find the foot pegs. It does make you want to stuff it into corners.

[lloydie]

try one with rear sets and lower clipons then you'll know what uncomfortable is , great for a 100 mile blast or track use but not suited work use


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[GoSlow]

Hi Jim, I'm new here but have just read your epic 'journey' shall we call it! Truly bad luck Not that I know much about the VTR engine in particular but my experience of engines in general gives me these thoughts. The only reasons I've ever known dropped valves are :- over revving, somehow I don't get the feeling this would be on your part but maybe previous to your ownership? Excessive valve clearance, I've seen relatively huge truck rocker arms broken by someone mixing imperial and metric! Foreign objects holding open the valve causing it to overheat the stem and throw the collets. To small a valve clearance causing the same result and lastly, engine builder error... that'd be me not installing a collet correctly and the valve dropping within 10 seconds of start up (it was a tvr v8) oopps! Seeing as your engine seemingly had a noise from initial startup I would normally lean towards the foreign object theory? Was it an inlet or exhaust valve? If inlet I'd have expected the vacuum problems (carb balance) you were experiencing right from your first set up of the carbs?

[VTRDark]

more than likely through faulty assembly

This is what I am thinking too. Has the bike had a previous cct failure this is the front cylinder were talking about here isn't it. Maybe the previous owner took a look and saw the valve was bent and then sold it on. Those collects can be a little fiddly to install and don't always seat correctly in the groove when the spring and cap springs back up. I always gently squeeze the spring compressor a couple of times so the spring compresses and releases slightly to make sure the collets sit in place correctly.

(:-})

[GoSlow]

How'd you explain the tapping noise with that though? Or are you thinking it's something unrelated? I thought maybe the noise was in fact a badly seated inlet valve (hard to tell on recorded sound) but i'd have thought the carb balance would have been an issue in that case... I suppose logically the valve had to be poorly seated at some point hence the need to adjust the carbs after a period of running so likely it was always bent and eventually the shock up the stem of shutting on the piss threw the collets?

[VTRDark]

Actually on second thoughts Jim would have spotted the bent valve when putting the engine back together unless the bend was so minor that the valve looked like it was seated correctly. so that must have happened after the collet broke free or got worse. Jim you didn't actually have the heads stripped down did you when doing the rebuild?
Yes I believe the tapping was a clearance issue but only minor like from doing valve clearances with the heads on the bench and not on the bike with the chain under tension. IIRC he checked them again at a later date while on the bike. Don't forget this is going by video so is not always the most accurate so I am making an informed guess if you like.

Did you hear the vid at the start when he first got the bike.

(:-})

[GoSlow]

Did you hear the vid at the start when he first got the bike.

No I didn't see that one, only the ones since the latest woe's... I don't think I wanna hear the sound of a 500cc piston hammering into the big end tbh

I guess we'll never know for sure what happened Jim, but for sure don't lose heart, rip the heads off (a 10 minue job for a vtr engine pro like yourself ) get the valves out and lap them in to make sure they're seating well, replace the collets and then enjoy the ride knowing your running on practically a new engine

[sirch345]

As GoSlow says, we'll probably never know exactly what happened, but my 1st thoughts were a previous front CCT failure as Carl thought.
If that was the case, the person who repaired the cylinder head may not have realised how important it is to make sure the collets are seated correctly Either that or one half got damaged on fitment, but of course due to how the collets sit that would not have been noticeable. Only a thought,

Chris.