help me troubleshoot my Storm

[VTRDark]

Kurt this is getting really confusing, it started with possible R/R problems and now we are onto carbs, timing and all sorts. I'm not even sure what the problem is anymore whether it wont start, rough running or what you keep jumping from one thing to another.

First off have you got the new R/R installed as not having one or one that is working can cause all sorts of electrical issues. Listening to the video there may be a little bit of a misfire there or it could quite simply be a case of either or both intake and exhaust leaks and/or fuelling issue.

What makes you think there is a timing issue, have you recently replaced CCT's. Being off 1 tooth wont make much noticeable difference. Maybe a lack of power or a bit more power than usual. Though saying that it's a good thing to check if it's something that has not been looked at since you got the bike and do something about the CCT's as well if it's not been done already.

Have you changed both plugs. Even if you have what looks like a good spark at both plugs they can still be an issue so best to start with them for the slight misfire and also make sure the HT leads are seated fully on the plugs.

The bike started with a bit of popping and banging and then idled on both cylinders on choke. Warmed up a bit and idles off choke. Still bogs on throttle and some loud backfires through the exhaust

Bike won't accept throttle though, either on or off choke, spitting back thru the carbs and backfiring thru the exhaust.

This sounds like you have some intake and or exhaust leaks. You may also have some jetting/carb issues. Also rule out the petcock vacuum. Make sure this is connected in the right place, not the bottom of the tap.

Pulled the carbs and noted excess fuel around the front inlet rubber

Make sure that you have a good seal/gasket is good around the float bowl. You may even have a leaky float valve. What's your oil like, does this show any signs of contamination.

blowing down the fuel pipe and tilting the carbs proves that the float valves are working.

But does not show any excess wear, scratches to the side of the valves or worn rubber around the tip. Remove the floats and take the valves out and inspect. While they are out give it a blast through with some carb cleaner.

Confirmed standard needles, and emulsion tubes in the correct location

What size pilot jets and mains have you got? You may even need to tweak your fuel mixture screws slightly.

Neither of my needles has a washer on top, but the head of the needle has a small raised pad machined in the centre which acts as a locating peg for the spring in the needle holder. Is this right or am I missing a washer in each carb?

Washer on top of the needle wont make any difference to how they seat in the spring. Have you got the washers under the needles. Also make sure the rubber diaphragms are in good condition, no pin holes or tears and are seated correctly.

If I was you I would start with replacing the plugs and then double check for any intake leaks around the carb inlet rubbers and for any exhaust leaks around the seals/brackets. But this excess fuel around the inlet rubber concerns me so I would suggest checking for any leaking fuel around the float bowl or even remove the bowl and check the float valves more thoroughly. The float is not adjustable so it's safe to remove without affecting the adjustment.

Other than than fuel then it's going to be an electrical problem somewhere.

(:-})

[kitsun]

I charged the battery with an Optimate and got a green light. The voltage was something like 12.3v across the terminals. I'm running total loss at the moment and my new reg/rec is due here tomorrow, so I can go back to a charging system. I've cleaned allthe multiplugs behind the tank and behind the clocks and I've cleaned the starter supply cable at the starter motor and the main earth behind the engine. I've cleaned the connectors to both CDI boxes in the tail. The bike spins over fine on the starter.

I haven't checked the coils yet as I have a spark at both plugs, although I guess that the front coil could be breaking down under load.

My next job is to check the front cylinder cam timing though. Once I'm satisfied that the timing is ok I can move on. Hopefully I'll get to do that this week, and I'll post the outcome.

Kurt999, I see your problem. It's your battery, battery terminal rest voltage at 12.3V means your battery is almost discharged or not accepting a charge. A fully charged lead acid battery should have a resting voltage of 13.2V-13.4V

Kit

[Kurt999]

Kurt this is getting really confusing, it started with possible R/R problems and now we are onto carbs, timing and all sorts. I'm not even sure what the problem is anymore whether it wont start, rough running or what you keep jumping from one thing to another.

First off have you got the new R/R installed as not having one or one that is working can cause all sorts of electrical issues. Listening to the video there may be a little bit of a misfire there or it could quite simply be a case of either or both intake and exhaust leaks and/or fuelling issue.

What makes you think there is a timing issue, have you recently replaced CCT's. Being off 1 tooth wont make much noticeable difference. Maybe a lack of power or a bit more power than usual. Though saying that it's a good thing to check if it's something that has not been looked at since you got the bike and do something about the CCT's as well if it's not been done already.

Have you changed both plugs. Even if you have what looks like a good spark at both plugs they can still be an issue so best to start with them for the slight misfire and also make sure the HT leads are seated fully on the plugs.

The bike started with a bit of popping and banging and then idled on both cylinders on choke. Warmed up a bit and idles off choke. Still bogs on throttle and some loud backfires through the exhaust

Bike won't accept throttle though, either on or off choke, spitting back thru the carbs and backfiring thru the exhaust.

This sounds like you have some intake and or exhaust leaks. You may also have some jetting/carb issues. Also rule out the petcock vacuum. Make sure this is connected in the right place, not the bottom of the tap.

Pulled the carbs and noted excess fuel around the front inlet rubber

Make sure that you have a good seal/gasket is good around the float bowl. You may even have a leaky float valve. What's your oil like, does this show any signs of contamination.

blowing down the fuel pipe and tilting the carbs proves that the float valves are working.

But does not show any excess wear, scratches to the side of the valves or worn rubber around the tip. Remove the floats and take the valves out and inspect. While they are out give it a blast through with some carb cleaner.

Confirmed standard needles, and emulsion tubes in the correct location

What size pilot jets and mains have you got? You may even need to tweak your fuel mixture screws slightly.

Neither of my needles has a washer on top, but the head of the needle has a small raised pad machined in the centre which acts as a locating peg for the spring in the needle holder. Is this right or am I missing a washer in each carb?

Washer on top of the needle wont make any difference to how they seat in the spring. Have you got the washers under the needles. Also make sure the rubber diaphragms are in good condition, no pin holes or tears and are seated correctly.

If I was you I would start with replacing the plugs and then double check for any intake leaks around the carb inlet rubbers and for any exhaust leaks around the seals/brackets. But this excess fuel around the inlet rubber concerns me so I would suggest checking for any leaking fuel around the float bowl or even remove the bowl and check the float valves more thoroughly. The float is not adjustable so it's safe to remove without affecting the adjustment.

Other than than fuel then it's going to be an electrical problem somewhere.

(:-})

OK to recap....



Fitted MCCTs (hence rechecking the cam timing), new plugs, new OE air filter and sub filters. Bike ran fine on a paddock stand, warmed up, rev'd freely, sounded good, but I didnt test ride it due to lack of time.

On the day I got to ride it, rode about a mile and the bike dropped onto 1 cylinder. Returning home the 2nd cylinder was cutting in and out. Checked charging and found that the reg rec was putting out 12-13v, noted that the odometer was flashing when trying to rev the bike. (? reg/rec fault)

The bike is now hard to start, will run on choke on both cylinders drops to 1 cylinder off choke (although sometimes it will idle off choke). Second cylinder randomly fires then quits, wont accept throttle, spits back through the carbs and loud backfires through the exhaust. The bike is completely unrideable.

I have removed the reg/rec from the bike-running total loss

Charged the battery, got a green light on the Optimate.

Checked front and rear plugs for spark. Tried 2 sets of plugs with no difference to poor running

Cleaned earth points and all multiplugs

Front plug wet with fuel so I thought maybe a stuck float hence the carb strip. The carbs are all good, no leaks, shims under the needles as per stock, diaphragms good, floats and float valves all good 48 pilots 175/178 mains, all standard stuff. All removed, cleaned checked and reassembled. Pilot screws 1 1/8 turn front 1 1/4 turn rear

There is no fuel in the oil.

No intake leaks. No exhaust leaks.

So, I'm rechecking the cam timing, bolting it back together and I'll run it up on an auxilliary tank.

[VTRDark]

I think you have two issues going on here fuelling and electrical. The coughing and spluttering is possibly caused by weak a mixture. IMO you need approximately another turn on the pilot screws. With 48s, 1 1/8 turn front 1 1/4 turn rear is not enough, try another 1/2 turn out on each to begin with and see if things improve there. Have you got a standard exhaust? The wet plug is bit of a mystery but this could be from the cylinder not firing so your getting a build up of excess unburnt fuel.

The R/R is definitely suspect as 12-13v is not enough especially while running. Even though your getting the green light on the charger the battery may not be holding a charge under load, so this is suspect. Be aware that either a faulty battery or R/R can take out one or the other. If a new R/R is put on and you have a faulty battery it can kill the new R/R and vica versa. Get the charging system sorted, this should be your priority.

If you still have misfires going on after sorting the charging system out then it's time to check the leads/coils and ECU's. A failing R/R can damage other electrical components though this is normally due to overcharging not under so hopefully once the battery and R/R is sorted you should be OK apart from some minor fuelling issues.

(:-})

[Kurt999]

I think you have two issues going on here fuelling and electrical. The coughing and spluttering is possibly caused by weak a mixture. IMO you need approximately another turn on the pilot screws. With 48s, 1 1/8 turn front 1 1/4 turn rear is not enough, try another 1/2 turn out on each to begin with and see if things improve there. Have you got a standard exhaust? The wet plug is bit of a mystery but this could be from the cylinder not firing so your getting a build up of excess unburnt fuel.

The R/R is definitely suspect as 12-13v is not enough especially while running. Even though your getting the green light on the charger the battery may not be holding a charge under load, so this is suspect. Be aware that either a faulty battery or R/R can take out one or the other. If a new R/R is put on and you have a faulty battery it can kill the new R/R and vica versa. Get the charging system sorted, this should be your priority.

If you still have misfires going on after sorting the charging system out then it's time to check the leads/coils and ECU's. A failing R/R can damage other electrical components though this is normally due to overcharging not under so hopefully once the battery and R/R is sorted you should be OK apart from some minor fuelling issues.

(:-})

yep standard exhaust.

Reg/rec will be here tomorrow and I can borrow the battery from my other bike...hopefully I'll get this done at the weekend.

Thanks for the help!!

[kitsun]

The R/R is definitely suspect as 12-13v is not enough especially while running. Even though your getting the green light on the charger the battery may not be holding a charge under load, so this is suspect. Be aware that either a faulty battery or R/R can take out one or the other. If a new R/R is put on and you have a faulty battery it can kill the new R/R and vica versa. Get the charging system sorted, this should be your priority.

(:-})

I agree with Cybercarl. With the engine running the voltage reading across the battery terminals should be above 14V. Mine is at 14.4V. Anything less than 14V with engine running means you have to look at RR, BATTERY

Kit

[VTRDark]

Run through these checks once done.
Regulator Rectifier Charging System Diagnosis Checks

That was written with non MOSFET' R/R in mind so expect your voltages to be at least at the higher end of the scale which is fine with MOSFET's as they run a bit higher.

(:-})

[Kurt999]

Rear cylinder cam timing as per my previous post...





Crank rotated 450* anticlockwise to FT mark.

Front cylinder cam timing (harder to photograph because of the bike layout)...









I should have photographed the front cylinder cam lobes but they are pointing up and diagonally away from each other

Rechecked to eliminate the chance that I made an error installing my MCCTs.

I'm sure this looks fine...can someone confirm please.

Still waiting for the reg/rec to arrive.

I'll carry out the charging system checks once it's arrived and I've fitted it.

[VTRDark]

STOP!!!! DO NOT START BIKE

Ignore all the markings/lines in between the two sprockets these are irrelevant to what your doing and for other things.

This is what your concerned with. The smaller line directly under RE should be level with the top of the head. Same for the RI on the other sprocket. I cant see the RI on your other pic because the wiring loom is in the way but I suspect its off too. Your lining the wrong lines up.

For want for a better word, I pray that you haven't damage any valves because that looks way off too me, but it's hard to tell how off it is from the angle of that pic. Lets hope you get lucky.

This FE is lined up correctly here, what about the FI? As these look OK I'm not sure why you have the rears wrong.


Did you not follow the tutorial/guide in the workshop knowlagbase.
Manual Cam Chain Tensioner Installation Guide (MCCT's)

This is how they should be:




The fronts will be FE and FI

I suggest you start over with the timing and double check everything. Post clear pics for verification if you like.

(:-})

[parkergb6]

As Carl has said don't start the bike. Go back the start and reset all the timings. Once you have done this check your valve clearances to see if any valves have been bent. Turn it over by hand etc. You may have been ok. As Carl has also already said take some photos of your timing marks both front and rear on both sides (ie the lobes and the sprocket end) as well as the crank markings and post it up. If I was closer to you I'd give you a hand.

I spent ages setting my one up after buying one where the valves had been bent and it was only thanks to help I got on here that all is well.

Hopefully your new reg/rec will be here tomorrow.
Cheers
Geoff

[Kurt999]

Starting from the top of my last post there are 6 photos. Photos 1 and 2 are the rear cylinder. The RT mark is lined up and the RE and RI marks are aligned with the face of the head and the cam lobes are pointing towards each other. This should be correct.

Then I rotated the crank 450* anticlockwise. The bottom 4 photos show the front cylinder

The FT mark is lined up (photo 3) and you can clearly see the FE mark on the exhaust cam lined up with the face on the head in photo 4. Near the top of photo 6 you can see the FI mark, again aligned with the face of the head. The valve clearances are all fine.

What can you see that I can't?


Thanks

[Kurt999]

STOP!!!! DO NOT START BIKE

Ignore all the markings/lines in between the two sprockets these are irrelevant to what your doing and for other things.

This is what your concerned with. The smaller line directly under RE should be level with the top of the head. Same for the RI on the other sprocket. I cant see the RI on your other pic because the wiring loom is in the way but I suspect its off too. Your lining the wrong lines up.

But this is the front cylinder that you are looking at which is why FI and FE are lined up...is this not right?

For want for a better word, I pray that you haven't damage any valves because that looks way off too me, but it's hard to tell how off it is from the angle of that pic. Lets hope you get lucky.

This FE is lined up correctly here, what about the FI? As these look OK I'm not sure why you have the rears wrong.


Did you not follow the tutorial/guide in the workshop knowlagbase.
Manual Cam Chain Tensioner Installation Guide (MCCT's)

This is how they should be:




The fronts will be FE and FI

I suggest you start over with the timing and double check everything. Post clear pics for verification if you like.

(:-})

To clarify

Rear cylinder RT mark on crank lined up RI and RE marks on cams lined up with face of head and cam lobes pointing towarg each other

Turn crank 450* anticlockwise to line up FT mark

Front cylinder cams FI and FE marks lined up with face of head and cam lobes point away from each other

[VTRDark]

You got it.

(:-})

[Kurt999]

You got it.

(:-})

Cool. That's how they've been all along, I think the angle that some of my photos have been taken at makes things look misaligned and its easier to see the cam sprocket marks in real life than it is in the photos

Turned the bike over by hand and all ok. Turned the bike over on the starter and all ok

So as there's nowt wrong with the cam timing or valve clearances, just waiting for a reg/rec and I'll tear into the electrics.

[VTRDark]

Good news. Yeh you right the angle of them photo's have confused things. Back to the R/R as originally then.

(:-})