help me troubleshoot my Storm

[Kurt999]

Hi,

2 days ago my VTR was running fine (albeit on a paddock stand). Jumped on it early this morning to go to Santa Pod for some RWYB action and didnt make it out of the village. It felt like 1 cylinder was cutting in and out, and more out than in. This is obvious when its idling. It wont rev freely even when stationary and just bogs if you try to rev through it.

Recently it has had some work , all done by me.

1 Manual CCTs
2 New plugs
3 New oem air filter
4 cleaned starter motor power cable bolt.
5 Oil and filter.
6 TPS set to 500 ohms


It ran fine after all this work ( on a paddock stand)

Then, on my way to the workshop day at Jamois the reg/reg died-undercharging.
I've ordered a MOSFET but while I'm waiting for it to arrive I've fitted a spare non finned standard one.

So today I've done the following.

1 Checked sparks both cylinders
2 Pulled carbs- no muck in the float bowls, pilot jets clear, emulsion tubes clear, main jets clear, floats free and working correctly
3 pulled rocker covers, rechecked cam timing,
4 checked battery, over 12v with lights on
5 checked charging, over 13 but under 14v reving engine as much as i could-still misfiring though
*** Noted that when I tried reving the bike that the odometer flashed on and off***
6 rechecked TPS
7 checked vacuum hose for leaks
8 checked fuel tap for flow from both outlets
9 checked to make sure that someone hadn't stolen a piston overnight.
10 trimmed 1/4 inch from HT leads and reattached plug caps


It's hard to know which cylinder is dropping because both plugs spark when tested, and both headers get hot because there is at least some action in the offending cylinder

Over to you guys, what do you reckon and what should I do next?


Thanks

Neil

PS tried the old spark plugs, still the same

[AMCQ46]

it sounds like fuel starvation to me. the fuel tap would be my no1 suspect.

you say you have checked the vacuum pipe is attached to the correct part of the fuel tap and it is not split or leaking? it could also be the diaphragm in the fuel tap

[Kurt999]

it sounds like fuel starvation to me. the fuel tap would be my no1 suspect.

you say you have checked the vacuum pipe is attached to the correct part of the fuel tap and it is not split or leaking? it could also be the diaphragm in the fuel tap

When I apply vacuum to the port on the tap, fuel flows from both spigots. I checked the vac line for splits. And what about the odometer flashing when I was trying to rev it...that seems more electrics to me?

But it feels like fuel, like its running out. I even put an extra gallon in the tank because it was quite low but no difference.

Thats why I'm confused.

I knew it wasn't cam timing because it would run consistantly badly, not cutting in and out, I just checked in the routine of checking everything that had been changed.

I reckon a beer will help me think!!

[VTRDark]

OK so you have sparks on both cylinders, though I have known dodgy plugs to spark before and cause a misfire so this is not always a guaranteed test, but as you also put the old ones back on I think we can rule this out. Fuel checked...did you just pull the hoses off at the tap or did you check the fuel was getting through to the carbs properly. Do make sure the vacuum pipe is on the side behind the left hand fuel hose and not on the bottom nipple. Common mistake!!!

*** Noted that when I tried revving the bike that the odometer flashed on and off***

This suggests electrical to me so double check you R/R earth as well as the battery terminals are done up tight. Also make sure the plug caps are on fully and seated securely, they take some force sometimes to get them to seat correctly. It may be worth checking the coils. Do you know which cylinder is misfiring, swap the coils around and see if the opposite cylinder misfires.

(:-})

[Steve97]

Got to be something to do with R/R or battery, its the only thing you changed , was running fine before setting off to Jamie s , dont care what the meter indicates, mine was the same symptoms and the multimeter said its cool but it wasn't new rr and battery back to normal
just a thought
Steve

[Kurt999]

Got to be something to do with R/R or battery, its the only thing you changed , was running fine before setting off to Jamie s , dont care what the meter indicates, mine was the same symptoms and the multimeter said its cool but it wasn't new rr and battery back to normal
just a thought
Steve

Yeah you may be right...I've got a MOSFET on the way and I'll stick the battery on the optimate and see if I get a green light. gotta check the earth points too.

I'm more convinced that it's electrical than fuel, but I've been wrong before lols

[parkergb6]

I had a similar thing when my reg/rec went. Ended up being the battery. However it recovered on an optimate and was ok once new reg/rec fitted. Hope it helps.

[Kurt999]

Assuming it's the reg/rec causing my problems, if I unplug it and recharge the battery, should the bike run ok? (at least until the battery voltage drops)

Thanks as ever

Neil

[parkergb6]

I cant couldn't say for sure as I didn't attempt it until I got a new reg/rec. All I can say it caused all the symptoms you've mentioned and then some. oIf you take it out of the loop ie disconnect it I don't see why it wouldn't, battery won't last long yet. There is an excellent flowchart guide to testing this reg/rec on this forum somewhere. Worked a treat for me.

[Kurt999]

I cant couldn't say for sure as I didn't attempt it until I got a new reg/rec. All I can say it caused all the symptoms you've mentioned and then some. oIf you take it out of the loop ie disconnect it I don't see why it wouldn't, battery won't last long yet. There is an excellent flowchart guide to testing this reg/rec on this forum somewhere. Worked a treat for me.

Thanks, I'll give it a go tomorrow if I get time, and report back.

[Kurt999]

I unplugged the reg/rec and checked the multiplugs to the cdi and the convertor (?) boxes, and cleaned the main earth at the back of the engine. The battery got a green light on the optimate. The bike started with a bit of popping and banging and then idled on both cylinders on choke. Warmed up a bit and idles off choke. Still bogs on throttle and some loud backfires through the exhaust. Standard cans, standard carb internals, standard air filter.

Do you think this is a result of not having a reg/rec connected or does it sound like my cam timing may still be a tooth out? (its hard to see the markings on the front cylinder cam sprockets with the engine in the frame)

[Kurt999]

Got back to working on the storm for an hour or so today. Pulled the front plug and earthed it to the engine. I have a definate blue spark and the bike fired on the rear cylinder so sparks are intact. Fired the bike up properly and both cylinders fired on choke, confirmed by squirting contact cleaner on the headers. Headers hot = combustion...woohoo!!

Bike won't accept throttle though, either on or off choke, spitting back thru the carbs and backfiring thru the exhaust. Disconnected TPS, no change. Pulled the plugs, rear plug nice, front plug black with carbon and wet with fuel. Checked oil level and odour for fuel.

Pulled the carbs and noted excess fuel around the front inlet rubber. Carbs put to one side to be stripped tomorrow.

Pulled the rear rocker cover and rechecked cam timing.





Tomorrow afternoon front cam timing check and carb strip.

I hope I get to the bottom of this soon. I like a challenge but I want to ride my storm now!

[Kurt999]

carbs stripped cleaned and rebuilt but thre was no muck in them at all. float heights ok. blowing down the fuel pipe and tilting the carbs proves that the float valves are working.. Removed the vacuum valve from the side of the front carb and checked by blowing through the valve whilst applying vacuum to the vac pipe with a syringe.

Confirmed standard needles, and emulsion tubes in the correct location

On the microfiche and in the Honda manual there is a washer on top of the needle as well as a shim under the needle.

Neither of my needles has a washer on top, but the head of the needle has a small raised pad machined in the centre which acts as a locating peg for the spring in the needle holder. Is this right or am I missing a washer in each carb?

Anyway, it doesn't look like the carbs are my problem.

I won't get to check the front cam timing for a few days now, hopefully thats just jumped a tooth or something now because if that's not the cause of my problems then I'm a bit lost.

[parkergb6]

I'm afraid I can't help regards the carbs but based on what you've said don't think there is much more carb based you can do. Have you checked the voltage from the battery? I know you have done lots of other electrical work. I can't remember but have you checked the electrical strap connected to the starter motor. What about the ignition coils?
Sorry I'm not much help.

[Kurt999]

I charged the battery with an Optimate and got a green light. The voltage was something like 12.3v across the terminals. I'm running total loss at the moment and my new reg/rec is due here tomorrow, so I can go back to a charging system. I've cleaned allthe multiplugs behind the tank and behind the clocks and I've cleaned the starter supply cable at the starter motor and the main earth behind the engine. I've cleaned the connectors to both CDI boxes in the tail. The bike spins over fine on the starter.

I haven't checked the coils yet as I have a spark at both plugs, although I guess that the front coil could be breaking down under load.

My next job is to check the front cylinder cam timing though. Once I'm satisfied that the timing is ok I can move on. Hopefully I'll get to do that this week, and I'll post the outcome.