Hitler

[oldbikeman]

Is anyone else into watching programs about this A Hole.What's the attraction?

[firestorm1997]

I think it may have something to do with the amount of control and power he held over his people..
I do watch Discovery and tend to get in to the War Documentaries but could not say I find watching Hilter an attraction.
If only someone would have shot him earlier in his career.. Could have saved thousands of lives.

[boz]

Yes you are stating the obvious that this person was beyond evil, but to gain some understanding of history I think it is important to study all significant figures in human history, both good and bad. I have just finished reading a book called Maus by Art Speigleman, an account of his father's experiences during the holocaust in the form of a graphic novel. I'm pretty sure that those who suffered the most under this monster would not mind others watching TV programmes about him. After all, anything broadcast [in the UK] is not going to present a sympathetic portrayal of him....that's just not possible. Even the fact that he loved his dog could not be shown in a light making him look half human. So don't feel bad about learning about this evil man. By doing so you are not condoning his actions in any way, shape or form. You are learning from it to ensure that his actions are never forgotten, that their magnitude is never diminished.

[firestorm1997]

well said...

[oldbikeman]

I find him a comical lunatic and it's hard to believe anyone could take his speeches seriously .He used other peoples prejudices and hate to get his way and was loved for it.His views were normal at the time and not only in Germany and I think it took a git like him to change folk.I do like Nazi armour and uniforms though and the flying stuff.Beats watching soaps.
Oh and I just read Hitler by John Toland,amazing.

[boz]

I find him a comical lunatic and it's hard to believe anyone could take his speeches seriously .He used other peoples prejudices and hate to get his way and was loved for it.His views were normal at the time and not only in Germany and I think it took a git like him to change folk.I do like Nazi armour and uniforms though and the flying stuff.Beats watching soaps.
Oh and I just read Hitler by John Toland,amazing.

You are spot on in both counts. Charlie Chaplin in "The Great Dictator" (his first talkie) parodied Hitler brilliantly. After all, this type of comedy provokes ridicule, the one thing sure to get under a megalomaniac's skin.
And yes, I can't remember who but there was another comic who pointed out that he thought the Nazi uniforms were better than the Allies'. This went down the path of pure camp comedy as in Allo Allo.
So yes, there are circumstances where an appropriate form of comedy can be applied to the most desperate example of human evil in the 20th century.

[pinkyfloyd]

I have not seen any of the shows about Hitler but we did study him in detail in school and I took an interest, enough of an interest that I have worked my way through Mein Kampf, which is a tortuous book to read but very insightful into what drove the man.

I see most of the above say the same thing only folded different, he was evil, he was mad, insane, what ever. I disagree. He was a genius, albeit a misguided one but a genius all the same. He came from Austria into Germany and managed to motivate a whole country in a way that had not been seen since the days of the Romans, Persians etc of old. For a public speaker there was none better than Hitler and at one point Hitler controlled most of Eurpoe as shown here:



The only thing that prevented Hitler from winning the war was Stalingrad. Hitler had decided that an invasion of Britian could be prevented in favour of taking down Russia and at the time his idea was a sound one, hindsight leads us to believe it was wrong but the Hitler and his army marched over Kiev with very little resistance even though the Russian army numbered well over 1 million troops protecting the city. It was the battle of Stalingrad that caused Hitler to lose the war, The german army were not prepared for the kind of resistance they recieved from Stalingrad. The battle went in Russia's favour, Suicide missions, hand to hand combat, the loss of well over 1 million russian troops saw them turn back the German army. From here Germany were on the back foot retreating. From there Russia invaded Germany wiping out armies which Hitler had commanded to stand fast until the last man.

We see the battle of Normandy and D Day as one of the biggest battles in the war, This is simply not true. Normandy and victory there was sheer luck which came at a cost. Germany had the higher ground position and the allied army won by sheer numbers. Over 425 thousand allied and german troops were killed (estimates 45 thousand allied dead, 30 thousand german dead), wounded or went missing making it one of the bloodiest battles in the war, but not the bloodiest. That went to the battle of Stalingrad with over 1.5 million dead between the sides and more than 40 thousand civilians dead.

The taking of Russia was the right thing to do strategically but it was doomed to failure with Hitlers troops spread between 3 fronts and the invasion of Italy dragging the Italians into the war.

Call him insane if you will, call him evil but the man so very nearly won the war and if it was not for Stalingrad putting up such fierce opposition then we would be sitting in a very different way of life right now.

What you must remember is histories are written by the victors. What we read and see is what happened from a victorious point of view. I would recomend the movie Downfall as it shows the last days Hitler and shows him not as an evil man but as a broken man who's army have all but deserted him and his country is turning against him.

[StormingHonda]

Personally I think theres to much political correctness surrounding Hitler, what I mean is when anyone mentions him every instantly says " he was an evil man BUT....", Personally I find him of great interest, I however do not subscribe to extreme right wing views and myths, I am right wing in some views and left wing in others.

What hitler done, was appaling, like the disturction of peoples homes, the killing of political, sexual preferance, race and creed and religion in the death and labour camps, and plugning the world into war.

However I felt we people of today have no insight into the world the Germans lived in after the first world war to make a judgment against them.

Hitler also done good things for Germany and gave back the German people their pride, a lot of what he done wasnt just of his own making, for instance the invasion of Poland wasnt just about invading Poland, it was also about disputed land where German people live on land that Poland felt was theirs, this turned into a civilian massacre which promoted Hitler to invade Poland.

There has been MANY cases of orginised slaughter of a race, religion or people, our own glorious war time leader Churchil murdered south African civilians in camps, which we hitlers insperation for his camps. Stalin, well this guy made Hitlers 6 million murders, look tame compaired to the orginised killings he commanded, wich involved ethnic, religious and political oppenents.

[oldbikeman]

Clever people do not have the right to go into other peoples homes and kill them just because they can or they think themselves better.Personally I think he was thick as a commander by repeating Napoleon's mistakes and his opponents just weak.Sure he could behave like a nice chap but it would have been better without him .It's a sad fact that if some the A Holes that get into number 10 could get away with it they would repeat a lot of his policies.

[vtryorks]

For all the horrific deeds committed under his authority, there is no denying that he is one of historys great leaders in terms of inspiring his people.

It would be foolish to think that the German people were already inclined towards such dogma prior to him taking power. He was an individual with such charisma that he was able to transform the beliefs of an entire country to meet his own personal agenda. That is really quite an amazing thing.

I think it would be hard to deny that only very rarely are people so gifted in the ways of politics. Due to what he was responsible for, it is not possible to have admiration for the man, but his story is remarkable nonetheless. He basically came from nowhere to create and maintain a great power, transforming the ideaology of the populace in the process and almost succeeding in ruling the entire continent of Europe. A greatly gifted, highly intelligent politician who chose the worst possible way in which to demonstrate his abilities.

What the world needs is a leader with these abilities, who will actually turn their hand to a positive purpose, rather than a destructive one.

[lumpyv]

i think the main value of learning about hitler is an understanding of the political and social situation of germany at the time he came to power. point being to make sure it could,nt happen again.
i did once read a book about his life as a young man up until the end of the 1st world war. fascinating.

[vtryorks]

i think the main value of learning about hitler is an understanding of the political and social situation of germany at the time he came to power. point being to make sure it could,nt happen again.

The thing is, its happening now to an extent. Poor macro-economic conditions, racial tension, immigration debates, you name it, its happening.

This is the great fear, that people become so discontented that they resort to actions like the Norwegian guy. The kind of environment the world now finds itself in is a breeding ground for extremism of all types regardless of race, religion or cause. The problem is, everyone seems scared to address the issues directly for fear of being seen as biased or politically incorrect. Lets be honest, the very phrase "poltically incorrect" strikes fear into the heart of any normal person. Its a horrific excuse for what amounts to censorship of views and ideas.

These are difficult time and what you say is spot on, the question is whether people have evolved sufficiently in the last 60 or so years to create a positive from a difficult situation rather than having to rely on almost "genius" level politics to guide them.

In other words, are people still sheep, or can we think for ourselves now?

[StormingHonda]

Clever people do not have the right to go into other peoples homes and kill them just because they can or they think themselves better.Personally I think he was thick as a commander by repeating Napoleon's mistakes and his opponents just weak.Sure he could behave like a nice chap but it would have been better without him .It's a sad fact that if some the A Holes that get into number 10 could get away with it they would repeat a lot of his policies.

If your talking about fighting a war on 2 fronts and getting into a long drawn out winter battle with the russians, we Brits also done that

I think Hitler was fully aware, something must of made him " twitchy " to actually attack Russia, hes plan was actually working and if it wasnt for the utter pants logistics then I'm pretty sure he would have crushed the Russians pretty descisively.

I would get into a debate about the damage our " leaders " in perticular Tony blair and the Labour party, but its not really a subject for an open forum and people tend to get upset and take it out of context.

[pinkyfloyd]

Hitler could not supply the manpower to take Russia as he was pushing into western Europe at the same time. He only made 2 mistakes when it came to Russia, he was under manned and was not prepared for the Russians to fight so fiercely. Had he put a hold on his Western Europe advance and just held positions I think the war would have ended differently. He had the manpower to hold his position in Europe AND overcome Russia's mighty army but not advance in Europe AND defeat Russia. It was one or the other. Sadly for him doing both became his undoing which was lucky for us.

[Vtrkidda]

Has only got one ball