No fuel, tons of smoke, won't start

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KatanaKid
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Re: No fuel, tons of smoke, won't start

Post by KatanaKid »

Thanks Chris,

I also remember hearing the sound of something under pressure when i kicked it over, turned out to be the fuel in my engine, ugh. And yes thank the bike gods it didn't ignite and blow up with all that unleaded swirling around in there. I've let it drain and will get oil tomorrow and see how it goes.
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sirch345
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Re: No fuel, tons of smoke, won't start

Post by sirch345 »

KatanaKid wrote: Mon Jan 20, 2020 10:04 am Thanks Chris,

I also remember hearing the sound of something under pressure when i kicked it over, turned out to be the fuel in my engine, ugh. And yes thank the bike gods it didn't ignite and blow up with all that unleaded swirling around in there. I've let it drain and will get oil tomorrow and see how it goes.
Yeah it makes you think after what could have happened, considering how explosive petrol can be :eh:

Chris.
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KatanaKid
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Re: No fuel, tons of smoke, won't start

Post by KatanaKid »

I pulled the tank and petcock off and the petcock diaphragm is all good and everything seems ok in there.

Some observations to note...

With the bike sitting with the sump plug out I noticed a small amount of fuel appear after the second day.

When i was taking off the petcock the fuel filter became wedged in the tank hole and I ripped it trying to get it out. I trimmed it up and gently pushed it into the hole with just enough sticking out so the petcock will sit nicely on it.

I just noticed the O ring that sits between the petcock and the tank is a bit flat, not ripped, just a bit flat. This wouldn't affect the fuel leak into the engine would it?

There was a small amount of oil sitting in the airbox when I took the top off it.

I can't get the bottom of the airbox out as I stripped one of the screws on the inside of the box that attaches back carby intake to the box... Any suggestions how to get this screw out without a blow torch and sledge hammer

:?
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Wicky
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Re: No fuel, tons of smoke, won't start

Post by Wicky »

I can't get the bottom of the airbox out as I stripped one of the screws on the inside of the box that attaches back carby intake to the box... Any suggestions how to get this screw out without a blow torch and sledge hammer
Try a Left handed drill bit and rags to stop swarf getting everwhere esp into the carb intake and clean up very thoroughly. Often happens as from the factory they are securely loctited - and use a JIS screwdriver NOT philips head.

You're Using The Wrong Screwdriver—JIS vs Phillips Screwdrivers Explained

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/US-PRO-Tools ... 3266898385
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KatanaKid
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Re: No fuel, tons of smoke, won't start

Post by KatanaKid »

Sweet Wicky. After all this time I just found that box of nice screwdrivers I bought five years ago are in fact JIS.

And I just thought the red ones are right handed and the green left :)
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sirch345
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Re: No fuel, tons of smoke, won't start

Post by sirch345 »

KatanaKid wrote: Sun Jan 26, 2020 7:20 am I pulled the tank and petcock off and the petcock diaphragm is all good and everything seems ok in there.

Some observations to note...

With the bike sitting with the sump plug out I noticed a small amount of fuel appear after the second day.

When i was taking off the petcock the fuel filter became wedged in the tank hole and I ripped it trying to get it out. I trimmed it up and gently pushed it into the hole with just enough sticking out so the petcock will sit nicely on it.

I just noticed the O ring that sits between the petcock and the tank is a bit flat, not ripped, just a bit flat. This wouldn't affect the fuel leak into the engine would it?

There was a small amount of oil sitting in the airbox when I took the top off it.

I can't get the bottom of the airbox out as I stripped one of the screws on the inside of the box that attaches back carby intake to the box... Any suggestions how to get this screw out without a blow torch and sledge hammer

:?
It seems as if petrol is still getting through seeing as you had some more come out of the sump, either that or you moved the bike and some fuel which was holed-up somewhere inside the engine was then was released.

Did you check to see if any petrol was getting past the diaphragm tap before you stripped it down :?: By that I mean removing all the pipes on the tap and putting a container underneath to collect any petrol that could be getting through. With sufficient petrol in the tank I would have left it over night at least. Probably easiest to do with the tank on the bench with the front supported up as if sat on the bike.

Check the tap by creating a vacuum on the outlet at the back of the tap, the one at nine o'clock position. You can do that with a short length of hose and a syringe from a brake bleeding kit or similar. Or do like I do and suck on the end of the pipe, it doesn't need a huge amount of suction to create a vacuum. With a vacuum created fuel should flow through the tap, remove the vacuum and it should stop.

No the O ring seal between the tap and tank would have not have any effect on petrol getting into the sump.

A small amount of oil in the airbox base is normal.

Unless you've repaired the fuel filter satisfactory I would suggest replacing it, otherwise you face the possibility of dirt etc getting past it which could end up causing you problems later on. The problem is over the years the filter being in petrol it expands, making it very difficult to remove without damaging it. It was certainly worth checking though,

Chris.
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sirch345
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Re: No fuel, tons of smoke, won't start

Post by sirch345 »

Thanks for that link Wicky, just what I needed :thumbup:
I have been meaning to get a set for ages,

Chris.
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KatanaKid
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Re: No fuel, tons of smoke, won't start

Post by KatanaKid »

sirch345 wrote: Sun Jan 26, 2020 12:41 pmDid you check to see if any petrol was getting past the diaphragm tap before you stripped it down :?: By that I mean removing all the pipes on the tap and putting a container underneath to collect any petrol that could be getting through. With sufficient petrol in the tank I would have left it over night at least. Probably easiest to do with the tank on the bench with the front supported up as if sat on the bike.

Chris could you please clarify something for me...When I took the fuel hoses off the petcock to take the tank off, fuel gushed out of both sides of the petcock. Is this normal?
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Wicky
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Re: No fuel, tons of smoke, won't start

Post by Wicky »

There'll be some residue fuel in the hoses past the fuel tap even when closed that will wpill out a small cupfull - if there's a lot that won't stop then the vacuum operated diaphragm has failed and there's the manually operated valve as back up.
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sirch345
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Re: No fuel, tons of smoke, won't start

Post by sirch345 »

KatanaKid wrote: Mon Jan 27, 2020 11:03 am
sirch345 wrote: Sun Jan 26, 2020 12:41 pmDid you check to see if any petrol was getting past the diaphragm tap before you stripped it down :?: By that I mean removing all the pipes on the tap and putting a container underneath to collect any petrol that could be getting through. With sufficient petrol in the tank I would have left it over night at least. Probably easiest to do with the tank on the bench with the front supported up as if sat on the bike.

Chris could you please clarify something for me...When I took the fuel hoses off the petcock to take the tank off, fuel gushed out of both sides of the petcock. Is this normal?
The petcock when working correctly is only open (allowing petrol to flow through it) when a vacuum is applied to it. With no vacuum applied to the petcock no petrol should be flowing through it if it's working correctly.

If you had petrol flowing out of the petcock both sides when you removed the hoses with no vacuum applied then there is a fault with the petcock. This is what we've been thinking, that this must have been happening for your sump to end up being filled with petrol.

HTH's,

Chris.
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KatanaKid
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Re: No fuel, tons of smoke, won't start

Post by KatanaKid »

Yes that's what I thought after reading your post regarding setting the tank up and seeing if anything comes out...sigh.

I was reading an old thread and a failed vacuum diaphragm is the cause for fuel gushing from the tap. Everything 'seems' ok in there, I need to get hold of a petcock schematic. As I said, I put a kit through it and was very careful to put it back as it was. I found this image of when I started to disassemble my petcock (that screwdriver in the photo is not one of my good ones:))


Image
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sirch345
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Re: No fuel, tons of smoke, won't start

Post by sirch345 »

KatanaKid wrote: Wed Jan 29, 2020 3:27 am Yes that's what I thought after reading your post regarding setting the tank up and seeing if anything comes out...sigh.

I was reading an old thread and a failed vacuum diaphragm is the cause for fuel gushing from the tap. Everything 'seems' ok in there, I need to get hold of a petcock schematic. As I said, I put a kit through it and was very careful to put it back as it was. I found this image of when I started to disassemble my petcock (that screwdriver in the photo is not one of my good ones:))


Image
While some guys on here have been successful with after-market petcock repair kits, others have found out the hard way the cheaper kits haven't always worked, resulting in them having to purchase a repair kit from Honda. If yours was an after-market kit that could be your problem, not something you did wrong,

Chris.
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KatanaKid
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Re: No fuel, tons of smoke, won't start

Post by KatanaKid »

I can't remember if it was genuine or not, I know my rocker cover gasket was.
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sirch345
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Re: No fuel, tons of smoke, won't start

Post by sirch345 »

KatanaKid wrote: Thu Jan 30, 2020 5:33 am I can't remember if it was genuine or not, I know my rocker cover gasket was.
I know the feeling :lol:

If you bought it online and paid by PayPal, PayPal will have a record of your purchase,

Chris.
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Re: No fuel, tons of smoke, won't start

Post by Dickiebig »

What we need to know is have you tried firing her up yet?
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