Cylinder head / gasket failure

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vtrjames
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Cylinder head / gasket failure

Post by vtrjames »

So I've got coolant filling up the oil in the sump.i think it's head gasket failure but I'm away to rig up a thing to pressure test my head's.liners look ok.engine was running ok. Checked head and block faces..seem ok.just wondered if the water pump seal failed would that be another route for coolant in?

I'm pretty sure it's one of the gaskets but I'll clean up faces ,re check that they are flat and pressure test

I've read that some new oem head gaskets are failing?is this correct or still a thing?
tony.mon
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Re: Cylinder head / gasket failure

Post by tony.mon »

Haven't heard of any head gaskets failing, oem or pattern.
In practice the head surface area is small compared to an il4 they won't warp.

Chances are it's the ceramic seal in the water pump, but that should result in water coming out of the overflow hole or spigot, so if that's not happening it may be that someone has blocked the overflow route with silicon sealer when refitting the clutch cover.


If not that, a head gasket.
No point testing, just pull both heads, replace head gaskets, might as well redo the valve clearances while you're there.
It's not falling off, it's an upgrade opportunity.
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8541Hawk
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Re: Cylinder head / gasket failure

Post by 8541Hawk »

I also have never heard of a head gasket failure of any kind in the 21 yrs of running these bikes.

Really sounds like an issue with the water pump. :wink:
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vtrjames
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Re: Cylinder head / gasket failure

Post by vtrjames »

Cheers for the replys..It did make me think about the pump.this is the first major think to go wrong with my two since I bought them in 2010,

It did make me wonder about the pump.checking the faces with a steel rule they look spot on just need a Polish up.

When rotating the water pump I take it it should be a little stiff to turn?
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Re: Cylinder head / gasket failure

Post by tony.mon »

Yes, because the ceramic bearing is held against a hardened surface by a spring.
Thats why you can gain a small amount of power by replacing the mechanical pump with an electric one.

Although it's not really a gain, just losing less.
It's not falling off, it's an upgrade opportunity.
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vtrjames
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Re: Cylinder head / gasket failure

Post by vtrjames »

Ah right.thats great..it's not really stiff just resistance to turn..I'll try new head gaskets and see if that sorts it if no must be looking at a pump seal
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E.Marquez
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Re: Cylinder head / gasket failure

Post by E.Marquez »

From this very forum
https://www.superhawkforum.com/forums/t ... post407810
The cylinder head gasket was leaking very slightly. So I put out a distress call to Roger Ditchfield -- the guru of VTRs. Very happy to have him reply and he said there has been a problem with the cylinder head gaskets in this area. It has happened to him twice now and he said that the cylinder head gaskets have been too long on the shelf.
This is his response to my email.

(ME) Just one more thing, I bolted the cylinder head gasket down to all the specifications, but the front cylinder leaks oil from the cam shaft chain side for some reason

(Roger) This is becoming an increasingly common issue. It has happened to me on two occasions. I believe that the head gaskets themselves are the issue as they are pretty old stock now coming out of Japan. Before re-fitting a new head gasket check with a straight edge that the head is nor warped.

Anyway I am not going to do the Head Gasket yet, I will put up with the leak, just in case there are any more adjustments that need to be done. Once I have it running correctly....I'll have to rip open the front cylinder again.
And my head gasket coolant leak.
https://www.superhawkforum.com/forums/g ... ggg-24736/

Its not common, but clearly does happen.
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E.Marquez
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Re: Cylinder head / gasket failure

Post by E.Marquez »

vtrjames wrote: Sun May 05, 2019 10:07 pm So I've got coolant filling up the oil in the sump.i think it's head gasket failure but I'm away to rig up a thing to pressure test my head's.liners look ok.engine was running ok. Checked head and block faces..seem ok.just wondered if the water pump seal failed would that be another route for coolant in?

I'm pretty sure it's one of the gaskets but I'll clean up faces ,re check that they are flat and pressure test

I've read that some new oem head gaskets are failing?is this correct or still a thing?
It would take a double seal failure for coolant to reach the sump, well three failures, the water pump weep hole would have to be plugged as well...so not likely but possible.

Leaking Welch plugs in heads, cracks in the head or cylinder are unlikely but possible leaks as well.
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vtrjames
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Re: Cylinder head / gasket failure

Post by vtrjames »

Yeah bit unlikley all 3

The heads don't have plugs so looking at gasket ,cracked head or cracked water jacket..hope it's a gasket
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Re: Cylinder head / gasket failure

Post by tony.mon »

Re-reading the thread from the start, what amount of mayonnaise have you noticed?
Remember that it's possible for moisture condensate from engines that aren't used for long enough to get a build up of condensate to boil off, because the engine is never at a hot enough temperature for long enough to boil off the water.
My own cb600 is a case in point- used for a less than 3 mile commute each way, and parked outside, it showed mayonnaise-like deposits at the filler hole, but an oil change and using it for longer runs at least once a week stopped the deposits occurring.

I could easily have stripped it and replaced the head gasket, but it wasn't necessary, just getting it up to full temp every so often was all that was needed.

I'm not saying that's what's going on with yours, just asking the question...
It's not falling off, it's an upgrade opportunity.
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vtrjames
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Re: Cylinder head / gasket failure

Post by vtrjames »

No mayonnaise,,that oat coolant seems to mix with oil quite nicely..

Quite a bit,at first I thought I may have over filled a wee bit so I ran off some oil so it was just above the minimum on the glass and run it again.after a short run the oil level was way over the max level..coolant had dropped too.

I've got the engine in bits now.difficult to tell if a gasket had been leaking but the front one is taking a bit of sand to clean off gasket residue or light pitting..

I've cleaned up one head face and checked with a steel rule and feelers at multiple angles and is looking well
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vtrjames
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Re: Cylinder head / gasket failure

Post by vtrjames »

So,made up cornflake packet head gaskets and a blanking plate for the waterway on the crankcase.pressurised and no leaks..must have been a head gasket
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VT1000r
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Re: Cylinder head / gasket failure

Post by VT1000r »

8541Hawk wrote: Mon May 06, 2019 12:55 am I also have never heard of a head gasket failure of any kind in the 21 yrs of running these bikes.

Really sounds like an issue with the water pump. :wink:
I had both gaskets fail on me within 30 miles of riding after installing, coolent only leaked in the cylinder bore and was blowing huge clouds of white smoke/vapor I feel bad for the car that was behind me. The reason it failed was because i bought a Chinese gasket kit when I rebuilt my engine "NEVER AGAIN" I LEARNED MY LESSON ONLY USE OEM don't be cheap like me it ends up costing more money and time. What's funny is 6 months later I installed highcomp pistons and tore the whole thing down again. I now know every bolt and it's torque by heart inside and out.
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8541Hawk
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Re: Cylinder head / gasket failure

Post by 8541Hawk »

VT1000r wrote: Tue Jun 04, 2019 8:14 am
8541Hawk wrote: Mon May 06, 2019 12:55 am I also have never heard of a head gasket failure of any kind in the 21 yrs of running these bikes.

Really sounds like an issue with the water pump. :wink:
I had both gaskets fail on me within 30 miles of riding after installing, coolent only leaked in the cylinder bore and was blowing huge clouds of white smoke/vapor I feel bad for the car that was behind me. The reason it failed was because i bought a Chinese gasket kit when I rebuilt my engine "NEVER AGAIN" I LEARNED MY LESSON ONLY USE OEM don't be cheap like me it ends up costing more money and time. What's funny is 6 months later I installed highcomp pistons and tore the whole thing down again. I now know every bolt and it's torque by heart inside and out.
Well since you want to quote me but not Tony I guess I need to answer....

It was never stated that the head gasket was replaced in the original post just a possible failure.....typical ask for advice but then leave out some important bits of information.

So with that I will still say I have never heard of one of these bikes just loosing a head gasket.

A failure after someone replaces a gasket.....well that is a different story and has many other questions that need to be asked before a proper answer can be given, like why where the heads off in the first place?

Then there is the question of is it a issue with the gasket or was it improperly installed or just a cheap part.
One of the reasons I only use OEM gaskets and have a nice set sitting here waiting for me to get around to installing my pistons and cams.
Loud pipes don't save lives, knowing how to ride your bike will save your life.
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