Header heat protection.

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E.Marquez
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Re: Header heat protection.

Post by E.Marquez »

VTRsquid wrote: Sat Mar 09, 2019 1:01 pm ^ I use hose clamps
They do work well to hold the wrap...
Just like the look of steel ties better.

That said...... perhaps a wide stainless steel T bolt hose clamp.......
B553322[1].jpg
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felix barrao
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Re: Header heat protection.

Post by felix barrao »

What is the benefit of covering the downpipes with this kind of stuff?
I have seen many times in " cafe racers", but thought that the only reason was the "cool look"
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E.Marquez
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Re: Header heat protection.

Post by E.Marquez »

felix barrao wrote: Sun Mar 10, 2019 4:07 pm What is the benefit of covering the downpipes with this kind of stuff?
I have seen many times in " cafe racers", but thought that the only reason was the "cool look"
For me its all about keeping heat away from things

The front header transfers heat to the air stream that cools the radiators. It heats the crossover coolant hose.
The rear header transfers heat to the shock.
So keeping heat away from those areas is good.
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felix barrao
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Re: Header heat protection.

Post by felix barrao »

Good reason.. And very "cool" :wink:
VTRsquid
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Re: Header heat protection.

Post by VTRsquid »

Yeah Im thinking about doing this too. Can really feel the heat off the headers even shortly after start up. Front header is radiating at the radiators and the rear wraps around the sump and cases.
Allegedly wrapped headers make more power too - theory being that keeping the heat in the exhaust gasses aids in maintaining gas velocity or some crap,, I imagine the difference at the wheel would be barely measurable though.
Also should dampen any high frequency noises being broadcast through the tube walls.
Possibly will promote rust and degradation of the metal with the extra heat and moisture retention.
It can be a good idea to paint with flameproof paint first, wrap, and then paint again. Its a little bit more permanant but its a great way of tidying up headers that are in rough condition.
VTRsquid
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Re: Header heat protection.

Post by VTRsquid »

E.Marquez wrote: Sat Mar 09, 2019 2:33 pm
VTRsquid wrote: Sat Mar 09, 2019 1:01 pm ^ I use hose clamps
They do work well to hold the wrap...
Just like the look of steel ties better.

That said...... perhaps a wide stainless steel T bolt hose clamp.......
B553322[1].jpg
Yeah those would look the goods but you get a pretty limited range of clamping travel (for want of a better terminology) on those so you would want to be spot on with the sizing.
Normal hose clamps arent bad, if you get vaguely the right size, you zip em down one hand with the impact driver, keep the screw on the blind side so you dont see it, and cut the tails of, looks fine *shrug*
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E.Marquez
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Re: Header heat protection.

Post by E.Marquez »

VTRsquid wrote: Mon Mar 11, 2019 9:30 pm
E.Marquez wrote: Sat Mar 09, 2019 2:33 pm
VTRsquid wrote: Sat Mar 09, 2019 1:01 pm ^ I use hose clamps
They do work well to hold the wrap...
Just like the look of steel ties better.

That said...... perhaps a wide stainless steel T bolt hose clamp.......
B553322[1].jpg
Yeah those would look the goods but you get a pretty limited range of clamping travel (for want of a better terminology) on those so you would want to be spot on with the sizing.
Ya I've dealt with that before .. I use them on the VTR and other exhausts now.. you just have to measure and not guess.

The worm gear clamp works.. plain and simple. Nothing wrong with function over form.

Its just a "thing: with me.. as a mechanic that sees all kinds of formerly owned bikes, and such. I see so many bodged repairs, "Mods" and fixes with hose clamps that I just cant look at one and not see crap.

:oops:
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VTRsquid
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Re: Header heat protection.

Post by VTRsquid »

Yeah i can see how overuse of worm gear clamps would irk a seasoned mechanic fixing other peoples bodges all the time,, buut they are a wonderous thing!
And i dont mean to be condescending, but the problem you will have with the T-bolt clamp, is;
a) you wont really be able to open it over any flanges on the pipe without kinking the band a bit
and b) they are bulkier than a worm drive

Depending on whats available in your parts, if you can get worm drive clamps in stainless that dont have the thread cut into the whole band, and cant hide the screw behind the header, my argument is that apart from being functional, they can look pretty good too, but that is subjective.

I just have a personal vendetta against those stainless cable ties used for this purpose, there is no way to pull them tight enough as they wil ALWAYs back out 1/16th before the ball locks, rendering them useless, even if you bend the tail over. I wasted waay to much time on them once and now its f***ing personal lol.
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Re: Header heat protection.

Post by tony.mon »

VTRsquid wrote: Tue Mar 12, 2019 8:19 pm Yeah i can see how overuse of worm gear clamps would irk a seasoned mechanic fixing other peoples bodges all the time,, buut they are a wonderous thing!
And i dont mean to be condescending, but the problem you will have with the T-bolt clamp, is;
a) you wont really be able to open it over any flanges on the pipe without kinking the band a bit
Where I'll be using it will be on the short stub downpipe from the rear head to the collector, so there's an open end at the lower joint with no flange. So I'll be able to use a stainless exhaust clamp of the right diameter by sliding it up form the slim end. But I'll be holding the wrap in place with some worrier prior to fixing the clamps at Bothe ends; well, that's the theory- maybe I'll need more than just two hands :lol:
It's not falling off, it's an upgrade opportunity.
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E.Marquez
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Re: Header heat protection.

Post by E.Marquez »

VTRsquid wrote: Tue Mar 12, 2019 8:19 pm And i dont mean to be condescending, but the problem you will have with the T-bolt clamp, is;
a) you wont really be able to open it over any flanges on the pipe without kinking the band a bit
Umm, not taken that way at all Thanks :beer:

And perhaps I've used different T bolt clamp types then you have seen, but all I have on hand and used open up just fine to clear the tube size they are bought for. No bent clamps, kinked or otherwise.
T bolt open.jpg
T bolt open.jpg (46.92 KiB) Viewed 2240 times
Once you unscrew the adjustment nut, the "T bolt" swings out of the way and gives you an open section to the clamp.
Bulker? Ya I suppose so... to me its fine as I know what the benefits are and the "bulk" screams quality precision, no damaged hose buy the clamp band holes (I use a lot of silicone hose, can not use standard worm gear clamps on those at all) and just "better" but to each his own.
worm and t bolt.jpg
And that "bulk" means wider clamp area so Im good with that as well.
side by side.jpg
But for sure the common use of worm gear clamps to hold things together, "mount" an accessory, "repair" a broken thing, tightened end till the hose is oozing out the clamp band hole
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mik_str
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Re: Header heat protection.

Post by mik_str »

as we all know, heat wrapping keeps heat in the pipes. This, as others have stated, helps reduce heat dispersion (in this case to the rads and shock). What is also does, however, is keep the exhaust gas temperature up, helping to improve gas flow and, wait for it..., increase power.
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E.Marquez
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Re: Header heat protection.

Post by E.Marquez »

mik_str wrote: Wed Mar 13, 2019 2:49 pm as we all know, heat wrapping keeps heat in the pipes. This, as others have stated, helps reduce heat dispersion (in this case to the rads and shock). What is also does, however, is keep the exhaust gas temperature up, helping to improve gas flow and, wait for it..., increase power.
So I did not post that as I have ZERO experience with the concept in use on THIS motor and bike combination.
And My past experience shows it only works in some cases... as in if the rest of the motor build, exhaust system shas a need for "more flow" in the way super heated exhaust gas can add to flow.
I did not want to make a claim of "increased " performance only to have someone ask how I know it does on THIS bike.. It might :shifty: Or it might not . As Im not looking for the extra .0365 HP it might add Im not spending the time and Dyno hours needed to prove or disprove :lol:
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VTRsquid
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Re: Header heat protection.

Post by VTRsquid »

Yeah thats what they say, keeps the energy in, thus the gas velocity, but like you say, probably not really measurable.
The t-bolt clamps do look nicer.
Slight derail; had right side link pipe of yesterday, seems the stock pipes are kind of restricted.. wher the two headers merge, then merge off again to the two mufflers, it seems rather than a clean merge they left the tubes protruding... to the point it looks like the left pipe gets much more flow. So its almost like a 2-1 or 2-1-1.5 rather than a 2-1-2 system. Did Honda do this intentionally? Didnt have the presence of mind to take a pic.
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Re: Header heat protection.

Post by VTRsquid »

Yeah thats what they say, keeps the energy in, thus the gas velocity, but like you say, probably not really measurable.
The t-bolt clamps do look nicer.
Slight derail; had right side link pipe of yesterday, seems the stock pipes are kind of restricted.. wher the two headers merge, then merge off again to the two mufflers, it seems rather than a clean merge they left the tubes protruding... to the point it looks like the left pipe gets much more flow. So its almost like a 2-1 or 2-1-1.5 rather than a 2-1-2 system. Did Honda do this intentionally? Didnt have the presence of mind to take a pic.
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E.Marquez
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Re: Header heat protection.

Post by E.Marquez »

VTRsquid wrote: Wed Mar 13, 2019 7:56 pm Yeah thats what they say, keeps the energy in, thus the gas velocity, but like you say, probably not really measurable.
The t-bolt clamps do look nicer.
Slight derail; had right side link pipe of yesterday, seems the stock pipes are kind of restricted.. wher the two headers merge, then merge off again to the two mufflers, it seems rather than a clean merge they left the tubes protruding... to the point it looks like the left pipe gets much more flow. So its almost like a 2-1 or 2-1-1.5 rather than a 2-1-2 system. Did Honda do this intentionally? Didnt have the presence of mind to take a pic.
Over the years the general consensus I've read is, the "blockage" is either designed in, or in any case, not detrimental to power or torque production.

IOW, no measurable difference if you take a die grinder and burr to that overlapping bit of tubing
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