Engine rebuild - cylinder re-sleeve

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E.Marquez
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Re: Engine rebuild - cylinder re-sleeve

Post by E.Marquez »

mik_str wrote: Sat Feb 03, 2018 12:02 am 99mm? what rings will you be using? the largest OEm rings are 98.5mm...
Why would he not use JE rings they sell for their pistons?
Why would he use OEM rings with a JE piston?
Every JE piston I have bought (3 this year so far, but none for a VTR, so maybe Im just missing something here????) comes with a set of rings.... Im confused by the question I guess.
rings.jpg
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Chris58
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Re: Engine rebuild - cylinder re-sleeve

Post by Chris58 »

I am still waiting to hear back from JE, but im assuming that they will provide the proper rings, if not I think that 98.5mm rings would likley be sufficient?? Or would tge end gaps be too large?

I talked to them on the phone last week, they did mention that those rings may not be available in that size.

Worst case I guess they can be made...
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Re: Engine rebuild - cylinder re-sleeve

Post by mik_str »

E.Marquez wrote: Sat Feb 03, 2018 1:16 am
mik_str wrote: Sat Feb 03, 2018 12:02 am 99mm? what rings will you be using? the largest OEm rings are 98.5mm...
Why would he not use JE rings they sell for their pistons?
Why would he use OEM rings with a JE piston?
Every JE piston I have bought (3 this year so far, but none for a VTR, so maybe Im just missing something here????) comes with a set of rings.... Im confused by the question I guess.
rings.jpg
in the case of the VTR, JE has you use Honda rings. Here you go, from their Web site (http://www.jepistons.com/Catalogs/Power ... _1000.aspx)

Ring # - OEM (not included)

Obvious they offer custom rings too...
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E.Marquez
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Re: Engine rebuild - cylinder re-sleeve

Post by E.Marquez »

mik_str wrote: Sat Feb 03, 2018 3:07 am
E.Marquez wrote: Sat Feb 03, 2018 1:16 am
mik_str wrote: Sat Feb 03, 2018 12:02 am 99mm? what rings will you be using? the largest OEm rings are 98.5mm...
Why would he not use JE rings they sell for their pistons?
Why would he use OEM rings with a JE piston?
Every JE piston I have bought (3 this year so far, but none for a VTR, so maybe Im just missing something here????) comes with a set of rings.... Im confused by the question I guess.
rings.jpg
in the case of the VTR, JE has you use Honda rings. Here you go, from their Web site (http://www.jepistons.com/Catalogs/Power ... _1000.aspx)

Ring # - OEM (not included)

Obvious they offer custom rings too...
Yes, got it, on a VTR 98mm piston offering, you use stock OEM rings... But on a 99mm piston, Id bet they provide rings, as 98.5mm rings in a 99mm bore are going to have a large end gap
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tony.mon
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Re: Engine rebuild - cylinder re-sleeve

Post by tony.mon »

I hope you're right, it won't have a good cylinder wall seal otherwise.
Might be worth contacting JE to ask what other engines use their 99mm pistons, and whether those rings are available.
It's not falling off, it's an upgrade opportunity.
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Re: Engine rebuild - cylinder re-sleeve

Post by mik_str »

tony.mon wrote: Sat Feb 03, 2018 7:29 pm I hope you're right, it won't have a good cylinder wall seal otherwise.
Might be worth contacting JE to ask what other engines use their 99mm pistons, and whether those rings are available.
It's not just about the size but also the material of the rings. AFAIK rings for iron vs nikasil cylinders are not the same material
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Chris58
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Re: Engine rebuild - cylinder re-sleeve

Post by Chris58 »

Im fairly sure they will have ring options available for any size piston. They could cut the ring lands to fit which ever ring set is suitable.

I could also go up to 100mm, and use sp rings. but as it was mentioned, they are likely designed for a nikasil bore

JE will contact me tomorrow..Ill let you guys know what happens.
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Re: Engine rebuild - cylinder re-sleeve

Post by tony.mon »

How about getting your bores nikasil plated to the size you want?
It's not falling off, it's an upgrade opportunity.
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E.Marquez
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Re: Engine rebuild - cylinder re-sleeve

Post by E.Marquez »

How about getting your bores nikasil plated to the size you want?
And we have now come full circle to what was the solution from the start (Chris58 Sorry mate, not trying to hammer you, you already said you did not know it was an option)
Its a good question...nikasil plating but Im not sure it can be used to "build up" a cylinder... I honestly don't know how thick it can be laid before failure.
US Chrome states " Our innovative cylinder plating technology enables us to create cylinder coating thicknesses up to 0.025”, as opposed to electroless nickel composites which are limited to 0.001” or less.”

So I suppose it is an option for some plating US Chrome uses a proprietary process and product they call "NiCom"
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Re: Engine rebuild - cylinder re-sleeve

Post by mik_str »

nikasil is generally applied to an aluminum cylinder; I come across conflicting info about its use on steel liners.
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E.Marquez
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Re: Engine rebuild - cylinder re-sleeve

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mik_str wrote: Sun Feb 04, 2018 5:20 pm nikasil is generally applied to an aluminum cylinder; I come across conflicting info about its use on steel liners.
The two companies i use in the states for plating, both told me they can plate my steel lined VTR.
Additionally I had them plate a single cylinder iron bore cylinder for a around the would adventure bike build I did a few years ago.. That nikasil plated iron bore made it 14 months across third world counties and back to Canada an as far as I know is still turning miles week after week ...but, now that you reminded me, I will send them an email and check in...
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Re: Engine rebuild - cylinder re-sleeve

Post by Chris58 »

I did contact 2 companies about nikasil after the machine shop incident. Both said it doesnt adhere to cast iron liners. Haven't looked into it much since..
Not saying it cant be done, but I couldnt find anyone who does it on iron here in Canada.
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Re: Engine rebuild - cylinder re-sleeve

Post by mik_str »

Chris58 wrote: Mon Feb 05, 2018 12:39 am here in Canada.
Canada? whereabouts brother? I'm in Montreal...
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E.Marquez
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Re: Engine rebuild - cylinder re-sleeve

Post by E.Marquez »

Chris58 wrote: Mon Feb 05, 2018 12:39 am I did contact 2 companies about nikasil after the machine shop incident. Both said it doesnt adhere to cast iron liners. Haven't looked into it much since..
Not saying it cant be done, but I couldnt find anyone who does it on iron here in Canada.
In the US and Canada Millennium Technologies LLC

Millennium Technologies LLC
1404 Pilgrim Road, Plymouth WI 53073
phone: (920) 893-5595
fax: (920) 893-4830


In Canada:
Please contact Fast Enterprises
at 204-895-1727.

Q.Can you plate cast iron?
A. We can plate many materials, cast iron included. By plating cast iron the cylinder will have all the benefits of NSC except the heat transfer. These benefits include 10 times better wear resistance, more horsepower, and better ring seal.
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Re: Engine rebuild - cylinder re-sleeve

Post by mik_str »

Not to sidetrack the discussion, but I find it ironic that some engine builders (Ford, Rotax) are now migrating towards plasma coating for their cylinders (essentially superheated iron applied in a very thin coating on a non-porous cylinder wall) and these folks claim better wear and power thanks to the latter`s improved porosity (which holds oil better).
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