Putting this VTR back on the road.

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jdugen
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Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2011 7:44 am

Putting this VTR back on the road.

Post by jdugen »

Hi all
I've submitted a few posts as I've been working on this one, to summarise:-

Bought as a spairs repair, front cyl CCT failure, on stripdown, two bent INLET valves. The tension spring had broken the 'D' shaped bit that provides the wind up tension. Drilled out and tapped the CCT body and plunger and fitted a maual adjuster system.
On riding, it had really bad clutch geab from tickover and a 'hunt' at steady cruising speeds.

As it has travelled exactly six miles in the last five/six years (it has not been MOT'd for at least this period) I am hoping a few oil changes and a bit of use will clear the clutch. I might even put some Magnatec oil in for a little while to help the cluth 'slip' a bit until it clears (thoughts?).

The hunting I have traced to a very leaky fuel tap diaphram, this I will strip, removing the diaphram and blanking the vaccum take off holes. On this one the 'bottom' inlet pipe sucks air when suction is applied to the 'back' vacuum intake pipe. (Just when I have filled the tank to the brim!)

Checking the carb balance, the back cyl was well down on the front. The adjuster screw has little or no effect. Turns out the linkages were siezed in place, some penetrating oil and a bit of jiggling has freed them up and now I can balance each cyl individually.

Once the tank is drained I can also take a look at the fuel level sender which has the low level light on all the time. Hoping that this is just another bit of age seizure of the float level. I would like to know what you can see when looking into the filler cap. Mine has a bar running at an angle to the right of and close to the filler hole, is this part of the level mech?

Cheers all, hope to be finished within the next few days, the Manx GP and Donnington Brit superbikes have interupted proceedings these last two weeks.
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Wicky
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Re: Putting this VTR back on the road.

Post by Wicky »

Yeah another firestorm lives to ride another day! If it's stood as long as you say then change (and bleed) all fluids & the clutch hydraulics hopefully should improve. The carbs would probably be gummed up so strip down and clean, before using fresh fuel.
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jdugen
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Re: Putting this VTR back on the road.

Post by jdugen »

Hi

I have recomissioned many bikes over the last years, I learnt early on that carbs need a complete cleaning to avoid going back in there again, any hydraulic fluid is changed as a matter of course. I also find that most, if not all, electrical connectors will have that green verdigris on the pins/contacts. Then I can move on to finding out what previous owners have done to it. I zero in on any chewed bolt heads, whatever component those bolts are holding on is likely to have had the same treatment. Air filters are, without fail, dirty, missing, or even home made from packing foam. Most modern engines are tough beyond belief, noisy ones usually sound a whole lot better once carbs are clean and properly balanced, though and added expense, I always change plugs, for some reason modern ones dont like to be left standing for any length of time. An oil change and a good battery usually has them running nicely.
This one is proving to be relatively easy (thank God for Honda build quality), as its not been messed with at all, just needs drowning in Duck oil and a thorough clean.
I still need to know what you can see when looking into the filler cap, I'm sure the bar I can see should not be there.

Cheers
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Wicky
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Re: Putting this VTR back on the road.

Post by Wicky »

Good to see you doing a thorough job - As for fuel level mechanism it was slightly different between the early +97 and late +01 Storms. The bar immediately below the filler cap is just a max fill indicator, on my 97 looking in from the left through the filler to the right is some gubbins with a tan coloured wire that is the part of fuel level system. Not very accessible unless you have long miniature hands. Have you checked the connector from the back of the tank to where it plugs into the loom on top of the frame nr the battery.

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Furrybiker
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Re: Putting this VTR back on the road.

Post by Furrybiker »

Sounds like the standard view into the tank, a silver bar that runs fore and aft. At least thats how mine looks!
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Wicky
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Re: Putting this VTR back on the road.

Post by Wicky »

See part 34 - that shows the sender is accessible from under the tank First check the sender from the tank is plugged into the loom.

http://www.ronayers.com/Fiche/TypeID/26 ... /FUEL_TANK

http://www.vtr1000.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=1053

and Superhawk thread http://www.superhawkforum.com/forums/te ... lem-22852/
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jdugen
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Re: Putting this VTR back on the road.

Post by jdugen »

Hi

Thanks for the info, saves me diverting time on figuring what the bar is supposed to do.
All connectors cleaned and good (found an incipient burn on the reg/rec plug.... as usual). All that remains is to get the plasic pipe and suck the fuel out of the tank.... Eeuuck!
BTW the carb balance mech is a bit more finiky than I thought. This one had siezed on the spindle part, all I was originally doing was moving both butterflies the same amount, if its proving impossible to balance, then strip off the actuating mech on the back carb and make sure that spindle is free and greased.
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Wicky
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Re: Putting this VTR back on the road.

Post by Wicky »

Tip the tank down so fuel is at bottom towards tap, and attach a 5mm hose to vacuum point (back of petcock) and suck. (remember to turn fuel tap back on if you turned it off when removing tank) Fuel should come out of the fuel tap.
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AMCQ46
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Re: Putting this VTR back on the road.

Post by AMCQ46 »

jdugen wrote:BTW the carb balance mech is a bit more finiky than I thought. This one had siezed on the spindle part, all I was originally doing was moving both butterflies the same amount, if its proving impossible to balance, then strip off the actuating mech on the back carb and make sure that spindle is free and greased.
Found the same on last 2 bikes we did carb balance on during the west mids workshop day.......managed to lose the biasing spring on on of them as well, :(

but we got them both working by adding WD40 and also by unscrewing the adjuster, then using a screw driver to assist the spring and force the moving link out to rest on the adjuster screw. then when you screw back in you force the link in and are not relying on the light spring to move the siezed up linkage.
AMcQ
jdugen
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Re: Putting this VTR back on the road.

Post by jdugen »

Hmmm, the butterfly adjusters seem to be a bit of a problem then. You can actually get to the mech with carbs in place, but carbs off makes it easier.
Getting them balanced is proving very, as in VERY difficult. Good god, its only two cylinders after all!!
It seems that there is a mid point around which you get a front rear balance, but, right on the point where it should be equal, the whole linkage moves towards the opening point. I can get a balance, but by that time the linkage is off the throttle stop and its revving up to 2K. Pushing hard on the throttle cable pulley gets it down, but releasing the pressure allows the linkage to sprng back. (Its not cable tension, they are as slack as Alice).
I'll figure it out, eventually, I usually do after wasting a day or so trying to understand why something so simple has been made so complicated.
Anyway, I've a gobfull of petrol leaving a nasty taste in my mouth, a fuel tap and fuel gauge to sort out, I'll sneak up on the carbs later on when they are not expecting it.
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AMCQ46
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Re: Putting this VTR back on the road.

Post by AMCQ46 »

may be a wrong guess, but if I understand all your comments on the 1st post, you diagnosed a leaking diaphram on the vac tap.
If this is not fixed, then the leak will be effecting the balance results, so it could be that you have now set the linkage so far out of normal position that when one butterfly is down on the lower stop, the other one is too far open and causing the high idle.

If you have even a small vac leak, your balance gauges will be reading wrong.

hope that helps
AMcQ
jdugen
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Re: Putting this VTR back on the road.

Post by jdugen »

Hi.
I am NOT superman mechanic, I dont think anyone is, just a guy with a bit too much experience of unloved / uncared for motorcycles. (Why couldnt something clean, cheap and socially acceptible be my abiding interest?).
I balance carbs with tank/airbox out of the way. I hang a bottle (Scotoiler bottles are ideal as they have a nice funnel shaped outlet that fits onto petrol hoses perfectly. Good job I have a few lying around as the 'storm needs two) from my overhead beam. This way I am not balancing tanks on seats and twisting fuel hoses. It is not a good idea to have a casual smoke whilst doing the job, but this method does make carb setup very easy indeed.
I have an electric hoist on a beam over the bike working area, makes front and rear suspension and tyre work a doddle and is useful for leveling the bike when oil changing. As I say, I have worked on far to many of the things and have attempted to make the workshop as ergonomically friendly and safe as I can.

Cheers and keep the tips coming in, I am NEVER too old to learn.
jdugen
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Re: Putting this VTR back on the road.

Post by jdugen »

Hi all.

Hopefully the last post on this topic.
Up bright and early to sort her out. Fuel tap gutted of the diaphram and vacuum inlets sealed. Fuel sender unit out, (its an electronic device so nothing mecahanical to fix). As soon as I did this, it worked (damn thing, light on when dry, light off when wet).
I had a horrible flat spot / misfire at around 3K to deal with and the hunting, lurching at a steady state throttle opening. Tank, airbox off and a quick inspection. All vacuum lines in place, cabs tight on the manifolds. Nothing else for it, carbs off and the jets and air passages cleaned out again.
Put it all together, no need for a road test, it stuttered and backfired as soon as a bit of throttle was applied.
LOOONG story cut short. The rear cylinder choke mech had broken the plastic screw thread (I must admit to taking the whole cable assy off still attaached to the carbs). It looked OK at a cursory glance (my attention was elsewhere). This was allowing the choke plunger off its seating (and introducing a massive air leak). As a 'fix' until a replacement arrives, I put the plunger and spring back into the choke hole and balnked it off with an M10 (I think) short bolt. Result!
At last I can get on the road, flat spot and lurching a distant memory (Yesterday is a long time ago at my age).
Its still a pig at low speeds but with the grand total of fifty miles up the clutch seems to have settled down, I still take care in close traffic to leave some 'lurch' space, but I think that a few more miles and an oil change might have sorted that little 'foible' out.
As a confirmed 4 cyl man, the power delivery is taking some getting used to, but, I can appreciate the low down punch it has. Once I stopped revving it hard and began using high gears and lower revs, progress could be made with everything feeling more relaxed. Its off for a 200 mile test tommorrow, up to Hawes in the North Yorks moors, some fast, mostly twisty roads, lets see how she compares to my yardstick, the Fireblade RRX.
jdugen
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Re: Putting this VTR back on the road.

Post by jdugen »

Didn't get far..... The reg/rec has decided to join the choir invisible. Replacement ordered. I WILL get a ride on this one...... sometime!
jdugen
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Re: Putting this VTR back on the road.

Post by jdugen »

OK, I've not updated this as I've been in the I.o.M and then down to Donnington as well as dealing with day to day stuff.
Finally got to take it out for a proper run, between the downpoors. Ran like crap, reg/rec had decided to jump ship.
Fitted a replacement Yamaha unit, all electrics now back on line. (This one kept losing its speedo, some lose the rev counter with a faulty R/R).
I put the hunting at steady throttle down to this.
Once more on the road, it accelerates fine, revs out in all gears so no cam timing issues, but, as soon as I come off the throttle to cruise, it starts lurching as if ignition is switching off, or the fuel supply is cutting off.
Needless to say, I have disected the carbs, checked diaphrams, checked float levels, gutted the fuel tap of its diaphram. Checked all vacuum hoses, thoroughly cleaned and checked the choke mech.
I've tried the air screw from 1 1/2 to 3 turns out. Carbs perfectly balanced.
Plugs are a bitch to get out, but once dug from the depth of the earth show good colour, even though i made a point of riding the last, lurchy. half mile home right in the worst area of throttle response (around 3K with a nearly closed throttle).
Most everyone that has had this has either given up or committed suicide, they seem to post for ages then... nothing.
I know all the usual replies, check for air leaks, clean carbs, check HT leads / coils etc. I've done all that and more. I've NEVER been beaten... yet, but this one has taken days of work and I'm no closer. If anyone has found a fix please let me know and you will be worshiped as a God above all Gods.
Cheers
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