Carbon Fiber 101

General Bike chat
Post Reply
User avatar
VTRDark
Posts: 20010
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2012 9:24 pm

Carbon Fiber 101

Post by VTRDark »

CARBON FIBER 101 by OPP

Congratulations, you have just taken a huge step towards becoming an educated consumer in the WORLD OF CARBON FIBER PRODUCTS. First of all, not all carbon fiber products are EQUAL. Please read this carefully and consider all the facts before buying any carbon fiber parts. It does not matter if you buy from OPP or any other company. We want to teach YOU how to buy carbon fiber products and get your money's worth.

Why do we care? We care because too many consumers are unaware about BAD carbon fiber products. There are established manufacturers and Ebay sellers who are promoting inferior carbon fiber products. Too many consumers make the wrong decision before purchasing a product. Most manufacturers will not give you any of this information because a sale is a sale and they do not care about the consumer. We are going to revolutionize the carbon fiber industry by telling YOU all of the secrets that the other manufacturers do not want you to know!

HERE IS THE SCOOP!
Carbon fiber products are composed of two materials: resin and fabric. Good carbon fiber products should only be made with EPOXY RESIN and CARBON FIBER FABRIC. OPP carbon fiber products are made only with epoxy resin and carbon fiber fabric.

THE IMPORTANCE OF EPOXY RESIN
Before you buy, ask your seller: "What kind of resin does your company use for carbon fiber and its derivatives?"

The wrong answer is POLYESTER RESIN!!!

Polyester resin is the cheapest product that any company can buy when working with carbon fiber or its derivatives.

1. Polyester resin has a blueish finish instead of a clear finish. The blue tint significantly reduces the appearance of the product.
2. Polyester resin is inflexible and will spider-crack at the mere thought of bending. Spider cracks fracture from the point of damage and are very difficult to fix.
3. Excessive amounts of polyester resin need to be used during the molding process. This adds considerable weight to the product and defeats the purpose of purchasing lightweight carbon fiber.
4. Polyester resin will shrink over time and alter the shape of the final product, resulting in installation headaches and additional modifications for fit.
5. Polyester resin is not UV resistant and will turn yellow over time.

The correct answer is EPOXY RESIN!!!

Epoxy resin is the industry standard for high-performance race products.

1. Epoxy resin is extremely flexible. The flexibility allows a carbon fiber product to absorb a high level of impact force without breaking.
2. Epoxy resin does not spider-crack. When epoxy reaches it's maximum bending potential (MBP), it will form only a single crack at the stress point.
3. Epoxy resin has a transparent finish that allows the deep, black 3D appearance of the carbon fiber to show through.
4. Epoxy resin does not shrink.
5. Epoxy is 100% UV resistant.

Photo Examples of Polyester Resin problems
Flexible Epoxy vs. Inflexible Polyester


Spider-Cracks

Image
Above- Look at the multiple spider cracks on polyester resin based fender (this is NOT made by us!)

Image
(above) Polyester resin: Note the spider crack, and excessive resin around mounting hole:

Image
(above)OPP using Epoxy Resin: By comparison, look at a cracked OPP fender with Epoxy resin, you can barely see the crack. Remember, Epoxy resin will form only a single crack at stress point after reaching Maximum bending potential.


Blueish Tint vs. Clear Tint
Image
(above): Note the blueish finish on the polyester resin.

Image
(above): OPP fender on left, Polyester resin on right. Note how the colour comes through better on the 100% clear Epoxy resin finish of the OPP piece.

Image
(above): Again, OPP fender on left, Polyester resin on right. The polyester resin's non-clear coating can be seen here.

Most manufacturers do not use epoxy resin because they are more interested in profits rather than delivering light, flexible and durable carbon fiber. Epoxy resin costs about 3x (three times) more than polyester resin. Epoxy resin (which is a liquid-like material) is more difficult to work with than polyester resin (which is a thicker viscous material). Epoxy resin is also toxic in its natural liquid form and requires high-grade ventilation systems to work with it safely. Yet these manufacturers who use polyester resin charge the same prices as carbon fiber products made with epoxy resin!

THE IMPORTANCE OF USING ONLY CARBON FIBER FABRIC
Before you buy, ask your seller: "How many layers of carbon fiber does your company use?"

Most companies claim that they manufacture carbon fiber products, however, this is only half the truth. 95% of companies use only ONE LAYER OF CARBON FIBER and TWO-THREE LAYERS OF FIBERGLASS. They spray paint the inside black so you cannot see the clear white fiberglass. Consumers are paying premium prices associated with pure carbon fiber products but are receiving inferior products made with fiberglass.

High-end companies will use two to three layers of carbon fiber. Sometimes a silk glass product is used to seal the edges and overlapping carbon fiber is used to prevent splinters and smooth transitions in layers. This silk glass product is called Avio-fiber; it is extremely expensive but results in a lightweight, superior product. Avio-fiber is best in Race Kevlar bodywork and overlapping carbon fiber in every carbon fiber manufacturing process.

RESIN AND FABRIC IS IMPORTANT FOR MOLDS TOO!

Resin and fabric is also important in the creation of molds! In order to create a carbon fiber part, a mold needs to be created. This mold provides the shape of the part. The mold is the first and most expensive part of the manufacturing process. To save money, bad manufacturers will make their molds from polyester resin and fiberglass. The polyester resin will shrink over time and will cause the mold to become deformed. Fiberglass is not durable so the mold will eventually twist and crack. These manufacturers will try to repair the mold and continue to manufacture defective carbon fiber parts that will require substantial modification to install.

High quality molds are made with epoxy resin and carbon fiber, just like the final product. We only sell epoxy resin products and carbon fiber for its molds so the final product is always perfect.

THE FINAL WORD ABOUT CARBON FIBER
So now you are informed about what you need to buy good quality carbon fiber products. Call your company and ask what kind of products they sell. If you hear "fiberglass" or "polyester resin", hang up. If they stumble and give you a BS answer, you know what the real answer is. You have just been educated. Good luck on your future purchases!

ABOUT OPP
OPP-Optimum Performance Products Inc. (OPP) is committed to providing sportbike riders with top-quality carbon fiber products at fair, competitive prices. OPP offers a wide range of bodywork including Carbon Fiber, Carbon Kevlar, Titanium Silver, Fiberglass and Race Kevlar.

We are the exclusive distributors and partners with FullSix Carbon fiber by CDT Group. The leading edge company that provides only the finest carbon fiber products hands down, no if , no buts , PERIOD. Read about CDT Group and their flag ship carbon fiber products which is registered under the brand name FullSix carbon fiber.

OPP was the first distributor to provide carbon kevlar reinforced mounting points, a practice which has now become an industry standard. OPP is associated with numerous European race organizations and is a leader in introducing bodywork for new models.

OPP is also committed to providing top-quality products from industry-leading manufacturers such as Gilles Tooling (Europe's #1 Clip-on and Rear Set manufacturer), Galespeed (Japan's #1 forged aluminum wheel manufacturer) and LighTech (Europe's #1 manufacturer of carbon fiber mirrors and anodized ergal-aluminum accessories).

COMPANIES THAT CUSTOMER SHOULD STAY AWAY FROM

1) SEBIMOTO (located in czech republic)

produce fiberglass , carbon fiber ( lol )

This company is a true scam ! If you ever had the unpleasent experience of purchasing some of their products from companies like Yoyoclown, then you know what a true nightmare this product is. All molds produced in polyester resin, the molds are made poorly and quickly , therefore no parts ever fit ! If you love using a dremel , file and spend a dozen hours messing around , then this is the product you need to buy !!

Source
==============================Enter the Darkside
User avatar
Wicky
Posts: 7895
Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2006 2:43 pm
Location: Colchester Essex
Contact:

Re: Carbon Fiber 101

Post by Wicky »

Image

Watch out for dodgy Belgium carbon lace fibre....
It may be that your whole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others.

ImageVTR Firestorm and other bikes t-shirts
tony.mon
Posts: 15938
Joined: Wed Jul 25, 2007 10:46 pm
Location: Norf Kent

Re: Carbon Fiber 101

Post by tony.mon »

Wicky wrote: Thu Mar 29, 2018 12:52 pm Image

Watch out for dodgy Belgium carbon lace fibre....
I'm just glad you didn't take the opportunity to photoshop some spidercracks.
It's not falling off, it's an upgrade opportunity.
User avatar
VTRDark
Posts: 20010
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2012 9:24 pm

Re: Carbon Fiber 101

Post by VTRDark »

How to Make Carbon Fibre Parts from Making the Mould right through to the Finished Product

Composite (Fibreglass) Pattern Making Tutorial (Carbon Fibre Airbox Pt.1)


Fibreglass/FRP Split-Mould Making Guide (Carbon Fibre Airbox Pt.2)


How to Make Prepreg/Dry Carbon Fibre Parts (Carbon Fiber Airbox Pt. 3)



If I had an oven I'd make my own wheels :biggrin Maybe a swingarm too :lol: I'm shocked how heavy the standard swingarm is.
==============================Enter the Darkside
tony.mon
Posts: 15938
Joined: Wed Jul 25, 2007 10:46 pm
Location: Norf Kent

Re: Carbon Fiber 101

Post by tony.mon »

Oven's easy, plywood box with a zed shaped baffle at the bottom, thermostat about a third of the way down with heat powered by a paint stripper gun.
Point the gun in at the bottom and the heat goes through the baffle. This stops bits and pieces being blown in.
Put a bit of metal sheet directly in front of the nozzle to stop the heat blowing directly onto a wood surface.
Small vent holes at the top allows heat out.

But a heated vacuum autoclave is a bit more tricky......
It's not falling off, it's an upgrade opportunity.
User avatar
Wicky
Posts: 7895
Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2006 2:43 pm
Location: Colchester Essex
Contact:

Re: Carbon Fiber 101

Post by Wicky »

Interesting series of vids showing the craftsmanship and time& effort involved in the process of making custom parts.

Worked as an artist at theme park company many moons ago and the guys working there in the glass fibre dept had the same 'dark' rings around their eyes as the guy presenting the vids - one of them looking quite wizened like Davros as a consequence of the chemicals they worked with.

Image

The expert plug /mould makers are worth their weight in gold and are much sought after. Saw what they could when visiting a GRP yacht makers and similar processes are involved but on a bigger scale - goodness knows what goes on with aerospace scale processes - and rockets with 18foot plus size CF pressure tanks.
It may be that your whole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others.

ImageVTR Firestorm and other bikes t-shirts
User avatar
VTRDark
Posts: 20010
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2012 9:24 pm

Re: Carbon Fiber 101

Post by VTRDark »

Definitely a lot of work and a certain amount of skill required. It just goes to show the process that something like our clutch and generator covers have to go through and why they cost what they cost. When you think about the cost of a set of carbon wheels its not only the sheer amount of materials required but also all the R&R gone in to it for how to lay the fibres so there is torsional strength in the right places and once built they have to get X-Rayed for any flaws. Quite amazing really.

==============================Enter the Darkside
User avatar
VTRDark
Posts: 20010
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2012 9:24 pm

Re: Carbon Fiber 101

Post by VTRDark »

Carbon Fiber vs Kevlar vs Fiberglass - Which one is right for YOU?

==============================Enter the Darkside
User avatar
VTRDark
Posts: 20010
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2012 9:24 pm

Re: Carbon Fiber 101

Post by VTRDark »

Now for something a little diffrent

==============================Enter the Darkside
User avatar
MacV2
Posts: 17417
Joined: Sun Jan 21, 2007 12:07 pm
Location: Grain

Re: Carbon Fiber 101

Post by MacV2 »

VTRDark wrote: Sun May 20, 2018 9:32 pm Now for something a little diffrent

Or save the hassle & go buy one... :lol: :lol:

https://carbonfibergear.com/collections/knives-tools
Making up since 2007, sometimes it's true...Honest...
User avatar
VTRDark
Posts: 20010
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2012 9:24 pm

Re: Carbon Fiber 101

Post by VTRDark »

I'm sensing a bit of dejavu here or did I dream this moment :lol:
==============================Enter the Darkside
Post Reply