VTR Down Under

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NZSpokes
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Joined: Sat May 31, 2014 9:50 am
Location: Auckland, New Zealand

Re: VTR Down Under

Post by NZSpokes » Sun Aug 02, 2015 9:45 am

Pull a plug. Bet she is running real rich.

A guy in New Zealand does the jets. he sells them to Aussies all the time.

This guy, http://www.smebike.info/

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Twitchy
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Location: Perth, Western Australia

Re: VTR Down Under

Post by Twitchy » Tue Aug 04, 2015 12:01 pm

Might check a plug on the weekend NZS. As mentioned previously I have removed the DJ 180 mains and gone back to Keihin 180 front & 182 rear, upped the pilots to 48s, and swapped the K&N for an OEM air filter. Big bike test next Friday, so hopefully it goes well and I can take the VTR out and see what its like on the road. That will also get it properly warmed up to allow fuel screw playing with some accuracy.
06 VTR1000F Firestorm (SuperHawk) with Jardine RT One high mounts, PAIR removed, Jack Flash thumb screws.
Build thread; http://vtr1000.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=41&t=36638

NZSpokes
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Joined: Sat May 31, 2014 9:50 am
Location: Auckland, New Zealand

Re: VTR Down Under

Post by NZSpokes » Tue Aug 04, 2015 6:50 pm

Twitchy wrote:Might check a plug on the weekend NZS. As mentioned previously I have removed the DJ 180 mains and gone back to Keihin 180 front & 182 rear, upped the pilots to 48s, and swapped the K&N for an OEM air filter. Big bike test next Friday, so hopefully it goes well and I can take the VTR out and see what its like on the road. That will also get it properly warmed up to allow fuel screw playing with some accuracy.
Well I dont know about you Aussies but we run a couple of jet sizes smaller than say the US. A guy I know runs a bike dyno and people that copy UK and US settings are always rich. Our atmospheric conditions are different.

Im to rich on stock 175/178 so have ordered 170/172.

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Pete.L
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Re: VTR Down Under

Post by Pete.L » Wed Aug 05, 2015 7:44 am

Strange that!!
Country New Zealand
Island North Island
Region Auckland
Territorial authority Auckland
Highest elevation 196 m (643 ft)
Lowest elevation 0 m (0 ft)

We are at about 90m where I live but I wouldn't atribute 100 meters to needing different jets??? Maybe it's something in the fuel or not whichever the case may be :crazy:

Pete.l
My new ride is a bit of a Howler and I love to make her Squeal

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Twitchy
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Location: Perth, Western Australia

Re: VTR Down Under

Post by Twitchy » Sun Aug 16, 2015 5:19 am

Good news everyone! I got my unrestricted license on Friday! So happy to be out on my bike finally, but so unhappy to be on it.

MAJOR hunting/surging/cutting out whatever you want to call it. Cruising at 4000rpm, 5000rpm didnt make any difference. Not nice riding at the moment. As I am notused to the grunt yet, took it to about 7000rpm a couple of times nice and easily, still the same.

As this bike had only done 130kms in 2 years when I bought it, it has been suggested to me that it simply needs to be ridden, and it will come good. Thoughts on that theory?
06 VTR1000F Firestorm (SuperHawk) with Jardine RT One high mounts, PAIR removed, Jack Flash thumb screws.
Build thread; http://vtr1000.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=41&t=36638

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Twitchy
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Location: Perth, Western Australia

Re: VTR Down Under

Post by Twitchy » Sun Aug 16, 2015 5:21 am

Oh, and it smells like its running stupidly rich, and yet the revs hang up considerably on blipping. Conflicting symptoms there?
06 VTR1000F Firestorm (SuperHawk) with Jardine RT One high mounts, PAIR removed, Jack Flash thumb screws.
Build thread; http://vtr1000.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=41&t=36638

NZSpokes
Posts: 643
Joined: Sat May 31, 2014 9:50 am
Location: Auckland, New Zealand

Re: VTR Down Under

Post by NZSpokes » Sun Aug 16, 2015 5:44 am

Pete.L wrote:Strange that!!
Country New Zealand
Island North Island
Region Auckland
Territorial authority Auckland
Highest elevation 196 m (643 ft)
Lowest elevation 0 m (0 ft)

We are at about 90m where I live but I wouldn't atribute 100 meters to needing different jets??? Maybe it's something in the fuel or not whichever the case may be :crazy:

Pete.l
Well Im on no shims and 170/172 mains and still smidge rich.

NZSpokes
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Location: Auckland, New Zealand

Re: VTR Down Under

Post by NZSpokes » Sun Aug 16, 2015 5:45 am

Twitchy wrote:Oh, and it smells like its running stupidly rich, and yet the revs hang up considerably on blipping. Conflicting symptoms there?
Check the plugs, post a pic of them. They tell the story.

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Twitchy
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Location: Perth, Western Australia

Re: VTR Down Under

Post by Twitchy » Thu Aug 20, 2015 12:19 pm

NZS, the plugs. Front on the left, a not too bad tan-ish colour. Maybe a tad lean. On the right, the rear plug. Obviously too rich. But in what circuit or throttle position?

Image

I am about to reassemble the carbs with the needle 1 clip up (leaner), so 3rd clip from the blunt end, with the same shims back in, 0.5mm front, 1.0mm rear. Leaving the 48 pilots in and the 180 front/182 rear at the moment. I also discovered a slight issue with the fuel screw which I do not believe to be my doing. The washer under the o ring was missing on both front and rear. I am very attentive to how everything comes apart, so when I removed the factory screws to install the Jack Flash screws, I installed what came out. I have been through my old parts containers, and no washers. I don't believe this would affect the fuel state, but would have flogged the o ring after a while. Luckily I had bought new screws which comes with the spring, washer & o ring.
Last edited by Twitchy on Fri Oct 27, 2017 1:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
06 VTR1000F Firestorm (SuperHawk) with Jardine RT One high mounts, PAIR removed, Jack Flash thumb screws.
Build thread; http://vtr1000.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=41&t=36638

NZSpokes
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Re: VTR Down Under

Post by NZSpokes » Thu Aug 20, 2015 6:48 pm

Both are still very rich just the front one is leaner at idle. My call is you are way to rich on mains.

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Twitchy
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Location: Perth, Western Australia

Re: VTR Down Under

Post by Twitchy » Fri Aug 21, 2015 1:57 pm

So as previously mentioned, fuel bowls left untouched, only change I have made is raising needle clip 1 notch (now 3rd from the top). 1x 0.5mm shim on front and 2x 0.5mm shims on rear needle. Front fuel screw 2 1/4 turns out and rear 2 turns out. The differential is due to the state of the plugs. Carb balance done with idle increased to 1800-1900rpm. TPS set to 498.8 ohms after setting idle to a slightly fluctuating 1250 rpm. Revs still hang up a tiny bit at about 2000 but nowhere near as bad as before.

I am pretty chuffed coz it actually starts well (with some enrichment help!), and idles reasonably nicely at 1250-ish rpm. I think I am starting to grasp the whole carb tuning thing finally!! More wet weather forecast for tomorrow but Sunday looking good to go for a test ride. If it rides ok I will be riding to work next week! The5only thing I reckon will need playing with is fhe fuel screws (need to go richer), which will require a rebalance and TPS check. Once I have it operating nicely then I will put some kms on it, and then change the main jets and refine everything.
06 VTR1000F Firestorm (SuperHawk) with Jardine RT One high mounts, PAIR removed, Jack Flash thumb screws.
Build thread; http://vtr1000.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=41&t=36638

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Twitchy
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Location: Perth, Western Australia

Re: VTR Down Under

Post by Twitchy » Mon Aug 24, 2015 1:09 pm

So I did about 80kms on the VTR yesterday (Sunday), still had the alleged lean surge, but livable. Stopped a couple of times to tweak the fuel screws by winding out 1/4 turn each, and had to adjust the idle to suit. Made it worse - most probably because I was out and couldn't check balance or TPS. Got home, undid the fuel adjustment and dropped the idle a bit. Rode to work today about 7 degrees, not too bad but still a way to go. Riding home this arvo, a bit worse than the morning, about 19 degrees.

Tonight I have checked the plugs, front still the same, rear nowhere near as black - just a lighter black, and an area of very dark brown. So maybe I am getting somewhere. Wound fuel screw out 1/4 on the front and wound rear in 1/8 turn. Did balance and set TPS to 496 ohms. 30km round trip to work, tomorrow I will see how it goes.

Still smelling very rich, NZS has mentioned the mains. How much effect would the mains have at less than half throttle and under 7000rpm? And also at idle and steady state cruise?
06 VTR1000F Firestorm (SuperHawk) with Jardine RT One high mounts, PAIR removed, Jack Flash thumb screws.
Build thread; http://vtr1000.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=41&t=36638

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Twitchy
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Location: Perth, Western Australia

Re: VTR Down Under

Post by Twitchy » Mon Aug 24, 2015 9:27 pm

Rode to work this morning, still has the hunt/cutout/surge thing, but a hell of a lot better than before. This is happening at cruise at any steady state cruise rpm between 3500 and 5500 rpm (that I have discovered so far). Is it possible that my TPS should be set higher or lower? I have read of guys here and at SH that have put their bikes back to 840 ohms, and I am sure 1 guy set his to 430 ohm. I think tonight I will check the plugs again and see whats going on but with fuel screws on 2 1/2 turns front and 1 7/8 rear, starting to wonder if the TPS is the main cause at the moment.

Oh, and at idle it still smells very rich.
06 VTR1000F Firestorm (SuperHawk) with Jardine RT One high mounts, PAIR removed, Jack Flash thumb screws.
Build thread; http://vtr1000.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=41&t=36638

NZSpokes
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Re: VTR Down Under

Post by NZSpokes » Tue Aug 25, 2015 7:59 am

Still rich. Not a lean surge but a rich one. Im 40/45 on idles.

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Twitchy
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Re: VTR Down Under

Post by Twitchy » Tue Aug 25, 2015 10:29 pm

NZSpokes wrote:Still rich. Not a lean surge but a rich one. Im 40/45 on idles.
Thats why I posted this question;
Twitchy wrote:How much effect would the mains have at less than half throttle and under 7000rpm? And also at idle and steady state cruise?
The bike still smells very rich, and yet the front plug is a good light colour, and the rear has gotten lighter. I am still getting the small hang up at 2000ish when blipping the throttle to about 3000rpm. According to many articles here, this means I am too lean on the pilots, but yet to find out how much effect the other circuits have on the idle and the lower end of the rev range.

I am still getting relentless cutting out/surging whatever at steady and light throttle position, feeling it badly chugging along in crawling traffic and feeling it at 80km/h revving at 5000rpm, and I am thinking it may be the TPS position. I believe 8541Hawk has his set at 430 ohm. There is a lot of info about lean conditions and rich conditions, but zero about incorrect TPS position. Nothing to say 'if this is happening try increasing/decreasing the ohms to blah blah blah'. Everyone just whacks it on 500 and leaves it. Hopefully 8541Hawk drops in here soon to explain it better.
06 VTR1000F Firestorm (SuperHawk) with Jardine RT One high mounts, PAIR removed, Jack Flash thumb screws.
Build thread; http://vtr1000.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=41&t=36638

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