VTR Down Under

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Twitchy
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Location: Perth, Western Australia

Re: VTR Down Under

Post by Twitchy »

Using standard NGKs for the test. $5 vs $20 for Iridiums. Used Iridiums back in now.

Spoke to a couple of guys about the plug chop and I probably did it wrong. I held it constant at 5500rpm and it is best to do it at WOT approaching the rev limit. Anyhoo, going to get it dynoed with AFR to try that way.
06 VTR1000F; bits by Jack Flash, Erik Marquez & Jamie Daugherty. SP/954 front and SP2 rear in the works.
Build thread; http://vtr1000.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=41&t=36638
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Twitchy
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Location: Perth, Western Australia

Re: VTR Down Under

Post by Twitchy »

Dyno done yesterday, 24 degrees, 25% humidity. 3 runs, 25% throttle (red line), 50% throttle (green line), 100% throttle (darker blue line). The guy didn't explain the mid blue line even though it pops up in the power graph and the AFR graph.
This setup is Honda OEM air filter, FP main 180 front, FP main 185 rear, FP needle on 3rd clip (middle slot) front & rear, FP 50 pilots front & rear, screws at 2 turns front and 2 1/4 rear and balance done day before dyno.

Image

Quite rich at the top end. I asked the guy in his expert opinion how far down he would go on the mains, and he said 4. Now I have got some OEM mains and I have read the FP and Keihin mains are measured the same way. Does that mean I can remove the FP mains and go to OEM Keihin while leaving the FP needle?

Any advice appreciated.
Last edited by Twitchy on Fri Oct 27, 2017 2:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
06 VTR1000F; bits by Jack Flash, Erik Marquez & Jamie Daugherty. SP/954 front and SP2 rear in the works.
Build thread; http://vtr1000.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=41&t=36638
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lloydie
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Re: VTR Down Under

Post by lloydie »

You can use fp needles and k jets .
Drop the mains down two sizes and re-test . Remember the Vtr likes it on the rich side .
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fabiostar
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Re: VTR Down Under

Post by fabiostar »

kinda on the same subject i noticed mines running just slightly rich on the rear and a bit darker on the front plug. but as youv just said these engines like to be a little rich do they?
the older i get,the faster i was :lol:
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Twitchy
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Re: VTR Down Under

Post by Twitchy »

Thinking I will come down from 185 rear to 182 rear. But I should mention significant buzz in bars and pegs to the point of riding more than half an hour numbs my fingers, an hour I can barely grab the front brake. Is this caused by a large differential between 180 front and 185 rear?

Also the red AFR line is 25% throttle. Should I come down from 50 pilots to 48 or even 50? Looks very rich which explains crap economy.
06 VTR1000F; bits by Jack Flash, Erik Marquez & Jamie Daugherty. SP/954 front and SP2 rear in the works.
Build thread; http://vtr1000.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=41&t=36638
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AMCQ46
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Re: VTR Down Under

Post by AMCQ46 »

Vibration will be from the exhaust mounts fighting each other. Slacken them all off and gently tighten front front to back
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tony.mon
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Re: VTR Down Under

Post by tony.mon »

Twitchy wrote:Thinking I will come down from 185 rear to 182 rear. But I should mention significant buzz in bars and pegs to the point of riding more than half an hour numbs my fingers, an hour I can barely grab the front brake. Is this caused by a large differential between 180 front and 185 rear?

Also the red AFR line is 25% throttle. Should I come down from 50 pilots to 48 or even 50? Looks very rich which explains crap economy.
50 pilots are too big. Drop to 48, or, as I think you meant to type, 45's.
It's not falling off, it's an upgrade opportunity.
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Twitchy
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Re: VTR Down Under

Post by Twitchy »

tony.mon wrote:...Drop to 48, or, as I think you meant to type, 45's.
Yes, oops - 45s.

Just had a thought though about the AFR reading. I didn't ask which pipe he put the sensor in. I would assume the right pipe. How much does the exhaust flow mix up in the exhaust? Does all the front cylinder go only to the right and rear to the left? Or would it mix up a bit? I wonder if the AFR graph is showing what the front cylinder is doing rather than an average of the 2. I might find out before the next test. I have read here that some people do 2 dyno runs, changing the AFR sensor to the other pipe for the second run.
06 VTR1000F; bits by Jack Flash, Erik Marquez & Jamie Daugherty. SP/954 front and SP2 rear in the works.
Build thread; http://vtr1000.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=41&t=36638
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Stephan
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Re: VTR Down Under

Post by Stephan »

Afr graph is showing unknown mix of two cylinders from both end cans, it is just for referrence something is wrong, but you don't know where.
As I said before, I wouldn't mess too much with settings, this power curve is really good. What is your gas consumption?
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Twitchy
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Re: VTR Down Under

Post by Twitchy »

Stephan wrote:Afr graph is showing unknown mix of two cylinders from both end cans, it is just for referrence something is wrong, but you don't know where.
As I said before, I wouldn't mess too much with settings, this power curve is really good. What is your gas consumption?
I have never got to the RLOD yet (not sure if the LCD models have a RLOD). The gauge has 6 segments, when it's on 1 segment it takes about 11 litres, and that is 120-140 kms moderate commuting (around 8 - 9 litres per hundred).
06 VTR1000F; bits by Jack Flash, Erik Marquez & Jamie Daugherty. SP/954 front and SP2 rear in the works.
Build thread; http://vtr1000.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=41&t=36638
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Stephan
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Re: VTR Down Under

Post by Stephan »

8-9 per 100 is ok, the best you can achieve for normal riding is about 7.5-8 including fast rides, this is what I get with stage1 engine.

When you go down to 45 pilots, I bet you will get hole between 3-5k. To solve, you need to adjust needles positions or main jets sizes or both and so on and on ...

That is why I recommend slight change on mains in this case of almost perfect running bike. It has effect through the all rpms, but there should be no negatives, I would expect only small adjustment on related pilot screw. Maybe I would try 48 in the future, if going down on mains will be positive, just a guess, not for sure.

Of course opinons vary, as always ... :)
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Twitchy
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Re: VTR Down Under

Post by Twitchy »

Yesterday I stripped the fuel side of the carbs (did not remove the diaphragms or needles), using a aerosol can of carby cleaner gave the main, pilot and fuel screw galleries a good flush through, opening the butterfly and also lifting the cv slide, then a quick blow through with compressed air. So now I have 178 front (down 2), 182 rear (down 3) mains, 48 pilots, fuel screws set on the bench at 1 3/4 turns front and 2 turns rear. Needles remain unchanged at middle slot - 3rd from the blunt end (Factory Pro 5 slot). The tps read 537 ohms on the bench. I will recheck that during the startup and tune stage.
This arvo and this weekend I will crank her up and see what its like.

I can't help but wonder if the drooping idle problem I have been having is due to 50 pilots and screws 2 1/4 turns out!!
06 VTR1000F; bits by Jack Flash, Erik Marquez & Jamie Daugherty. SP/954 front and SP2 rear in the works.
Build thread; http://vtr1000.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=41&t=36638
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Twitchy
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Re: VTR Down Under

Post by Twitchy »

Woohoo!! 100th post! :beer:

Anyways, back to discussing D twins :boobs:

Oops, sorry meant v twins!!
06 VTR1000F; bits by Jack Flash, Erik Marquez & Jamie Daugherty. SP/954 front and SP2 rear in the works.
Build thread; http://vtr1000.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=41&t=36638
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Stephan
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Re: VTR Down Under

Post by Stephan »

Twitchy wrote:Woohoo!! 100th post! :beer:

Anyways, back to discussing D twins :boobs:

Oops, sorry meant v twins!!
so, how is the new setting?
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Twitchy
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Re: VTR Down Under

Post by Twitchy »

I went for an hours ride on Sunday, beautiful mid 20 degree day before Anzac Day.
First things first - first time balancing with needle type gauges rather than my povo fluid manometer type gauge. The gauges were donated by a workmate who used them on his resto CB750 Nighthawk;
Image

Left gauge is the front cylinder, right is rear. I did have to install flow restrictors (came with the gauges) to stop the bouncing needles, wound them out until the bouncing all but stopped but each restrictor was wound out slightly different which concerns me. Also when starting the bike the rear needle came up a lot slower than the front.

Anyway, initial impression was the bike felt perkier through the low - mid range which is nice. Above about 6k rpm it felt like is was struggling a bit, like it was being held back or choked or something. Stupidly I did not pull the choke out to see if it improved. As for surging, not sure if it was so faint it was barely noticeable, or if it was the road surface, but I think I felt something at cruise anywhere between high 3's through to high 5's. Now this may be because I reduced the main jets and left the needle. I think leaning the mains will have leaned the needle circuit, and my solution is to shim the needles to raise them a touch. I also got 1 occasion of 'clunk-die/misfire' whatever while idling at the lights, but it did not die (set the idle to 1250 when balancing, but between home and the servo bumped it up to about 1400 as it seemed too low, but that could me being nervous about more clunk-dies!

So before my next dyno, I want to lift the needles 1 shim each, check the TPS setting as it is, perhaps lower the idle to 1300rpm and recheck TPS, and take it for a ride. I think 1 3/4 front and 2 rear on the screws is a bit lean, but will leave them for the moment.
Last edited by Twitchy on Fri Oct 27, 2017 2:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
06 VTR1000F; bits by Jack Flash, Erik Marquez & Jamie Daugherty. SP/954 front and SP2 rear in the works.
Build thread; http://vtr1000.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=41&t=36638
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