VTR Down Under

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VTRDark
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Re: VTR Down Under

Post by VTRDark »

OK so it's sounding more and more like you have a dynojet kit installed. With the three lift holes it really does require the dynojet diaphram springs (supplied in US kits) which are a bit shorter than the Honda otherwise you will most likely have issues. I have no idea why the springs don't come supplied with the UK kits. :roll: I suspect the extra hole and shorter springs also work in conjunction with a K&N filter but that is only a guess. Loads of folk have had issues and much dyno time getting a K&N filter working with these bikes for some reason. Personally I would put a standard filter in as has been suggested previously. It's going to make things a whole lot easier and smoother to tune.

Onto the mains.
And checking the cross reference guide here;
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=35272
Be careful with these conversion charts as it's debatable to as accurate they are. You don't think Dynbojet are going to give their secrets away that easily. Their jets are measured by flow rate unlike the others, so not exactly a fair comparison. This is one of the reasons I went the Factory Pro route because they use the exact same mains design and measurement scale as Keihin :wink: You cant compare Dynojets to others and unfortunately it's not as easy as looking at a chart and putting an equivalent size jet in place. There are no short cuts. You put what you think is right in (often the recommended baseline) and go for a ride at the appropriate revs/throttle position for the carb circuit your working on, in this case the mains. You then go up one or two sizes larger (richer) on the mains to see if the bike performs better and then go down smaller (leaner) one or two sizes and go from there. You may find that the original baseline jets work the best in which case you stay as is or try one leaner or richer if you went the two steps before.

To answer your questions.
1. I am unsure which main jets to get if getting genuine.
Stick with two 180 dynojets or possibly a 180/185 combination if running the dynojet needles. If you go standard you would be better off going back to standard needles or using a kit that use the same mains design. Stick with one or the other. You start mixing kits and it's going to make things tricky and time consuming to get right.
2. Using the DJ needle with the clip in the 4th hole from the top, do I need to shim it as with the standard? Or just leave it as is?
I don't recall the exact instructional guide that come with the kits but IIRC it says to use the shims. I would have a shim either side of the clip personally as it keeps the clip and needle more stable/securely in place in the holder. You could always go richer or leaner by moving the clip position anyway. So if using the the dynojet needles 3rd or 4th clip would be about right as long as the slides are standard and don't have the extra lift hole or shorter springs.

If you want to stick with the K&N filter then you may have more luck with their springs and extra lift hole but be prepared for dyno time to get things right.
3. Is jetsrus.com a good place to source the parts?
If you decide to go the standard route then yes jet r us are good. There should be firms closer to home for you that do jets though.

Getting back to the slides. Do a good job with epoxy and block the rear of the hole inside the slide so epoxy does not squidge through and make a mess. This will affect the needle holder and could add to weight distribution as the slide opens and closes. Get your filling as flush (smooth) as possible on both sides of the hole and make sure the epoxy is fuel resistant. Also don't mix the front and rear carb slides up if you can help it. They have worn into individual carbs. Were talking fine tolerances in carbs and you don't want a slide sticking or loosely chattering away.

If I was you I would go as follows:
Standard filter and stacks.
180/180 Dynojet mains
Dynojet needle (as you have it) on the 4th clip position and two lift holes in the slides as standard and run the standard diaphram springs.
(I bought new standard springs and they do make a difference. It surprising how much they shrink over the years)
48 pilots with 2 turns on the fuel mixture screws.

The above set up should get you dam close to spot on minus some light tweaking/tuning. I speak from my own and others experiences.

Something else that is worth considering while you in there is to get some new float needle valves. Only buy genuine as they are cheap to replace and a consumable service item kind of. The pointy rubber bit on the end where it sits in the seat wears down over time and leaves an indentation so sits lower in the seat which affects the float height and can cause fuel leaking past the seat. It's worth taking a look to see how worn they are if you fancy digging deeper into the carbs. Don't change unnecessarily though. Oh sh1t have I just complicated things :lol: There is a lot more to carbs than simply dropping a jet kit in and following their instructions. :beer:

(:-})
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thunderbolt
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Re: VTR Down Under

Post by thunderbolt »

Top explanation Carl, and good information for ALL.
Cheers
Don
____________________________________________

Bikes:
1977 Suzuki GS550/700 - modified significantly
1981 Moto Guzzi 850 T4
1990 Suzuki VX800
2003 Honda Firestorm VTR1000
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Twitchy
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Re: VTR Down Under

Post by Twitchy »

Can anybody shed some light please?

http://www.partzilla.com/parts/search/H ... parts.html

Looking at the parts diagram shown above, part number 6 - screw set fuel screw, there is 2 different part numbers, 16028-MY5-890 and 16016-MAS-640.
Any ideas which one I order? I want these purely for the spring and o ring, but cant seem to find them individually.

Thanks.
06 VTR1000F; bits by Jack Flash, Erik Marquez & Jamie Daugherty. SP/954 front and SP2 rear in the works.
Build thread; http://vtr1000.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=41&t=36638
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Twitchy
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Re: VTR Down Under

Post by Twitchy »

Ok, now I am totally confuzzled.

Partzilla;
Search done under VTR1000F 2005 (no U.S. model in 2006)
16028-MY5-890 and 16016-MAS-640

https://www.motorcyclespareparts.eu/hon ... refix.aspx
Search done under SC36, Year code 6 (2006)
- list 16016MZ1790 'Part Number' and 16016MY5850 as a 'Replacement Part'

http://www.lingshondaparts.com/honda_mo ... ck_03=6137
Search by VIN (should be most accurate)
PFKL319985

http://www.servicehondapsn.com/fiche_se ... veh=132087
Search done under VTR1000F 2005 (no U.S. model in 2006)
lists "16028-MY5-890 (replaces 16016-MAS-640)"

http://www.internationalmotoparts.com/o ... nent-parts
Search done under VTR1000F 2005 (no U.S. model in 2006)
has a line struck through 16016-MAS-640, and lists 16028-MY5-890

So do I bite the bullet and order 16028-MY5-890 as 3 different websites list it? Not that we can always trust websites!
06 VTR1000F; bits by Jack Flash, Erik Marquez & Jamie Daugherty. SP/954 front and SP2 rear in the works.
Build thread; http://vtr1000.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=41&t=36638
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VTRDark
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Re: VTR Down Under

Post by VTRDark »

I apologise but haven't the time right now to go looking through all the links in detail. Hopefully someone else will chime in, but to shed some light on the confusion. In the US and other countries with strong emissions laws they have a D type screw head which is capped off. Supposed to be tamperproof :roll: Here in the UK we have a standard crosshead screw and not capped off.

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Twitchy
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Re: VTR Down Under

Post by Twitchy »

I ended up ordering 16016-MAS-640 as from what I could find 16028-MY5-890 is the 'd' shape (tamperproof) head.

The other one is the float valve. Partzilla and others also had 2 numbers for that. So I have ordered the one I think is correct. At US$15 each could be a costly exercise....
06 VTR1000F; bits by Jack Flash, Erik Marquez & Jamie Daugherty. SP/954 front and SP2 rear in the works.
Build thread; http://vtr1000.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=41&t=36638
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Twitchy
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Re: VTR Down Under

Post by Twitchy »

Twitchy wrote:I ended up ordering 16016-MAS-640 as from what I could find 16028-MY5-890 is the 'd' shape (tamperproof) head.
So after all the procrastinating, Partzilla are sending the MY5-890 anyway :?
06 VTR1000F; bits by Jack Flash, Erik Marquez & Jamie Daugherty. SP/954 front and SP2 rear in the works.
Build thread; http://vtr1000.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=41&t=36638
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Twitchy
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Re: VTR Down Under

Post by Twitchy »

While I am waiting for international shipping again, I have ripped the carbs off in preparation, and did some electrical checks as per Carl's reg/rec diagnosis thread. Not all checks done but this is what I came up with;

Ignition off 12.46v
Ignition on 11.83v
Ignition on with high beam on 11.78v

Reg/rec leakdown - unplugged reg/rec, checked between reg/rec terminals and negative on battery.
The 5 terminals varied between 17 and 30 millivolts. (mV). So I figure the reg/rec is still ok at the moment.

I did end up taking the battery out and having it checked at Battery World. They hooked some device onto it and the guy told me it was about 100cca down. So as mentioned by Cadbury64, I forked out $250 8O for a new Yuasa battery. That sucker better outlast me!!

Also while I have some downtime, I will look into Salty Dog's suggestion of the starter motor problem....
06 VTR1000F; bits by Jack Flash, Erik Marquez & Jamie Daugherty. SP/954 front and SP2 rear in the works.
Build thread; http://vtr1000.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=41&t=36638
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Twitchy
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Re: VTR Down Under

Post by Twitchy »

Still waiting for shipping, but 1 package that did come in was from superbrightleds.com. Along with some other stuff, I got replacement '74' type LED bulbs for the VTR. I like to have a BRIGHT neutral light, to avoid embarassing traffic light over-revs, and BRIGHT indicator lights so I don't ride for km after km with an indicator flashing away. In the Perth summer sun, dash lights can be difficult to see.

Standard factory lighting - parked outside;
Image

Forgot to get a photo of standard bulbs inside :oops:

Upgraded white LED bulbs - parked outside (notice the brighter Neutral light);
Image

Upgraded white LEDs - parked inside (sorry about the blur);
Image

Now for those who don't know, on the update VTR with the LCD screen, the bulb behind the screen has a blue cover, so I did actually get 1 blue LED just to compare.

Upgraded white LED bulbs with blue LCD bulb - parked outside;
Image

Upgraded white LEDs with blue LCD LED bulb - parked inside;
Image

And for a direct as possible comparison (without the black cover on);
All white LEDs;
Image

White & blue LCD LED;
Image

The white LED behind the LCD screen had a significant 'hot spot'. The centre of the screen was a lot brighter than the rest of the screen. The blue LED had a similar 'hot spot', but nowhere near as noticeable. Plus I suspect the blue LCD LED will be not so harsh on the eyes. Either way I did not order enough to put a white LED in the LCD spot as well as the rest (didn't want to overcommit). I have left the blue 1 in for the moment, but not sure I like it. But out in the sinking afternoon sun, the blue was barely noticeable.

Disclaimer: I have not been out on the road on the bike day or night to see how I like or dislike the changes. Will have to update this later.

These are the bulbs;
https://www.superbrightleds.com/moreinf ... /228/1068/

Now back to waiting for USPS.....
Last edited by Twitchy on Fri Oct 27, 2017 2:11 am, edited 5 times in total.
06 VTR1000F; bits by Jack Flash, Erik Marquez & Jamie Daugherty. SP/954 front and SP2 rear in the works.
Build thread; http://vtr1000.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=41&t=36638
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Twitchy
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Re: VTR Down Under

Post by Twitchy »

So a box of factory standard components rocked up yesterday - diaphragm springs, float valve, stock air filter, little foam airbox filters. Now just waiting on the #48 jets and shims that have been sitting in Chicago for 8 days now :evil:

I measured the diaphragm springs after reading that DJ use a much shorter spring. The springs in the carbs are give or take 300mm (12"), the brand new units from Honda are 270mm (10 3/4ish"). So now I am totally confused. Standard pilots, DJ mains, standard springs, extra lift hole in slide, DJ needle on 4th from top, K&N filter. A nice blend of DJ and stock.

For the record, I am going with #48 pilots, new standard diaphragm springs, new float valves, new standard air filter, new airbox foam filters, and unless otherwise advised, 178/180 mains, DJ needles left on 4th from top, but possibly going to add 1 extra shim under rear needle. And as for t he carb slide, thinking I might just block 2 holes. Reason for this is I have Jardine high mounts, and seems to be the aftermarket pipes like only 1 hole in slide. Any feedback recommended - as this is just what I have brainstormed after much reading...

*EDIT* - sorry, should have specified - that would be the Keihin 178/180 mains. I did actually order 1 each 175, 178, 180, 182 Keihin mains, just in case!
06 VTR1000F; bits by Jack Flash, Erik Marquez & Jamie Daugherty. SP/954 front and SP2 rear in the works.
Build thread; http://vtr1000.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=41&t=36638
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VTRDark
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Re: VTR Down Under

Post by VTRDark »

First off thanks for posting. Those dash lights are big improvement. Good job. :clap:

Diaphragm springs may have stretched. I don't know how long the standard ones are as I never measured them. Your carb setup sounds like a good direction to be going in. Nice little selection of mains you have there. If you have 3 holes in the slide then defo block one. That's not including the middle one that the needle runs through. :lol: You may like to try the one hole approach but I would try the two holes first and see how you get on. You can always block a hole later if you prefer.

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kenmoore
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Re: VTR Down Under

Post by kenmoore »

I have a Dyno Jet Kit and I found standard slides to be the go for me.

I drilled the slides as per the instructions and things didn't feel right.

Had a spare set of carbs and went back to standard slides and all was well.

My bike has other engine mods too numerous to mention on here and I have come to the conclusion that standard slides are the best under real world riding.

Good luck with the carbs , they are one of the best things about the VTR.

Get them right and it is fantastic.

Good luck, and one last piece of advice, apart from the odd sync including mixtures, leave them alone otherwise you will be chasing your tail if you know what I mean.

From what I can gather no two VTRs are the same, so all the advice is good, but may not be relevant to your bike because with carbs there are so many variables.
South Coast
New South Wales
Australia
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Twitchy
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Re: VTR Down Under

Post by Twitchy »

Vernier calipers said the lift hole was 2.5mm as stated. Used an 'o' ring that was about 2.7mm. Fed it into the hole so it was slightly recessed on the needle holder side, dripped 1 drop down into the needle holder side, used a flat blade screwdriver to spread the glue and let it dry. The needle holder side is barely proud of the surrounding surface. On the curved surface, I used stanley blade to trim the 'o' ring flush, dropped another drip of super glue and wiped it with a rag. Due to the fact I trimmed this side so well, pretty much all the glue wiped off. I really hope the glue is enough to hold it against the vacuum operating there.

Still waiting for USPS, so wont be able to check my handiwork just yet, but edging ever closer, with thanks to those who went before me and now impart valuable information to the rest of us!
06 VTR1000F; bits by Jack Flash, Erik Marquez & Jamie Daugherty. SP/954 front and SP2 rear in the works.
Build thread; http://vtr1000.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=41&t=36638
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kenmoore
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Re: VTR Down Under

Post by kenmoore »

Twitchy,

Read through your complete post and just to let you know I have an Australian delivered 05 model in Italian Red. Funny thing is that the rego check I originally did on it when I bought it says that it is Black, however it has the appropriate sticker on the sub frame! Weird one that.

Also , did you remove the inlet restrictors?

Just curious.

I run a 180 Dynojet front and 185 Dynojet rear that works well for me.

Also standard filter with the Bernie Morgan Mod.

No PAIR!

I have J.E pistons and some head work amongst other things and have my idle set at 1500.

Here are my plugs when I pulled them a couple of months ago.

Image

They tell me that things are good.

How is yours running now?
South Coast
New South Wales
Australia
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Twitchy
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Re: VTR Down Under

Post by Twitchy »

Well after some time waiting for Ultra Slow Postal Service, I finally got my jets this week. As dicussed previously, and reading through many threads, I have installed Keihin 180 main front and Keihin182 main rear. I have kept the Dynojet needles, clipped 4th down but I have added 1 shim on the rear needle for what measured at 1.08mm (the Jets R Us shims are a shade thicker). Also Keihin 48 pilot jets installed, float valves replaced, diaphragm springs replaced, 1 hole on each slide blocked with an 'O' ring and superglue. New standard OEM air filter installed, thumb screws set to 2 turns out front & rear and new intake boots with restrictors removed.

On reinstallation I broke the main body of the choke mounting thread. I was tired and focussing on finally having the carbs back on. Stupid stupid stupid. The choke does actually operate as normal, it just hangs rather than being fixed. Another part I now need to buy :roll:

Anyway, I got it started. Exhaust note definitly sounds different, not sure if actually better or if I think its better purely coz it sounds different. Letting it warm up with fast idle is all I can do (still 2 weeks till test!), but with idle set at about 1500rpm, give it a blip to about 3000, and it hangs up when it hits the high teens/2000rpm area. Wound screws out 1/4 turn each, now at 2 1/4 front & 2 1/2 rear. Still hangs up in the same range. Tried 2 1/2 & 2 3/4, not quite so bad but still hanging.

Today went out to continue playing, managed to get it running despite the VTR being VERY resistant! Running like a bag of crap until it was very warmed up. I had to wind the idle screw in a LOT to get it to hold about 1500rpm. It was running terrible. Got the carb sync done, it wasn't too far off anyway. Haven't checked the TPS yet but I had set it to 497 ohms a little while back. Started playing with the fuel screws to see if I could discover what a "crisp" exhaust note sounds like. Don't think I even got close! On the rear cylinder, winding the screw in made it race (rpm went up) and winding it a long way out made the engine bog down. I have now lost how many turns the rear screw is so need to reset it now.

So the next is to reset the fuel screws back to 2 and 2 1/4 as thats where it sounded nicest, check the TPS, and then not sure. Probably get someone to shadow me so I can legally take it for a run and see what its like on the road. But I have a funny feeling the carbs are gonna have to come off again very soon!
Last edited by Twitchy on Fri Oct 27, 2017 2:17 am, edited 2 times in total.
06 VTR1000F; bits by Jack Flash, Erik Marquez & Jamie Daugherty. SP/954 front and SP2 rear in the works.
Build thread; http://vtr1000.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=41&t=36638
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