Red storm dyno - hp on engine

Just post charts and set up details.
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Stephan
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Re: Red storm dyno - hp on engine

Post by Stephan »

Today I spoke to dynoman, and according to him, Ignitech alwas put some base advance here, but this value doesn´t correspond with physical base advance on engine. However, absolute values coming from Ignitech unit should be the same as stock unit, as 8541Hawk mentioned.

for the 5° base advance in table, it seems that this number is valid only until 1st value in table comes into play, but again, real value has to be measuered by stroboscope.
The values in table are not affected by this base advance, as shown in table bellow, please look on marked line at 2% TPS, where until 1k rpm (1st defined in my table) is 5°, and after that 8°according to 1st table value.

I am waiting for reply from ignitech as well, but at the moment I believe absolute values from ignitech are corresponding with stock settings.

Image
MK_WF
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Re: Red storm dyno - hp on engine

Post by MK_WF »

Everything would be so easy if Honda would have printed that bloody map to the workshop manual like Yamaha did with the RZ 350 ...

As I don't have experience with 4 stroke maps I can't argue with the map values. That's the reason why I was asking if anyone would have a map.
(I'm using the Ignitech mainly as a quickshifter ECU - optimization of the map is secondary for me)

But I do have experience with programmable Ignitions/EFI on twostrokes since 2005.
In any System you need to tell the unit "where is the crank" by using a characteristic position like a missing tooth.
The procedure to test it is always the same. Measure TDC position (or any other), mark the rotor, program a curve that fires at the mark. Use a strobe to check and correct base advance until mark is matching.
The base advance value of 5 deg for the VTR is simply plain wrong on my individual bike.
The consequence is simply that the values in the Ignitech map are not deg before top dead center.
If you need that, you'll have to increase the map by 11 deg and set the base advance to 16 deg.
Is that map right? I can't tell. But I can ask experienced people for their opinions.

On the German Megasquirt forum people advised not to exceed the 42 deg.
They said on the dyno 3 deg less would hardly loose power, but 3 more would result in knocking combustion.
Older Ducatis would only use max. 32 deg.

Newer Ducatis for example have pretty high low TPS/high rpm values of 60-70 deg.
http://www.ducati.ms/forums/attachments ... nition.jpg
http://www.ducati.ms/forums/attachments ... -both-.png

Adjusting the base advance and then using the unaltered map would certainly be safe. Though these values seem a bit low to me.
And more importantly they don't match other information you can get (i.e. 15 deg at idle and 42 at 9500)

For myself I decided to start with some lower values and do some dyno testing and/or attaching something like this:
http://www.viatrack.ca


Also note that I don't want to run down anyone's work nor say that the Ignitech is crap. In contrary: I have bought there several times and it's a great product.
Bye
Martin
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Stephan
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Re: Red storm dyno - hp on engine

Post by Stephan »

Mr Krejzl from Ignitech asked for my phone number today to explain my question, will see if he call me or not. I hope customer service from ignitech will be above Czech standard ... :-)

Anyway, thank you for kicking this topic out and for your replies, it encourages me to work with ignitech unit more and I am now able to play with.
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8541Hawk
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Re: Red storm dyno - hp on engine

Post by 8541Hawk »

Markus (Tweety) has done a lot of work with the advance curves, though I haven't seen him post anywhere in a while......
They call me "Mr. Flat Earther"
MK_WF
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Re: Red storm dyno - hp on engine

Post by MK_WF »

MK_WF wrote: Adjusting the base advance and then using the unaltered map would certainly be safe. Though these values seem a bit low to me.
I tried this variant and it runs like crap in the low range. You could feel it directly after start from the lame engine response when blipping the throttle.
In mid and high rpm it was rideable, though with a few ponies missing.

That's one sure hint for the engine "preferring" higher advance values.
Bye
Martin
MK_WF
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Re: Red storm dyno - hp on engine

Post by MK_WF »

I have a colleague who is very experienced in Matlab and he wrote a little compare tool for Ignitech maps.
Nice stuff and works for 10x10 maps of the TCI P4 and CDI P2.

That's how Stepans map looks compared to the Ignitech measurement:
Image

And that is my wimpy current state:
Image
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Martin
MK_WF
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Re: Red storm dyno - hp on engine

Post by MK_WF »

I've been send an Ignitech unit that was running in a VTR for 16000 km, so these values can be considered "save".
His full load/full rpm advance is in Stepans range. My partial load is higher.

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Martin
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Stephan
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Re: Red storm dyno - hp on engine

Post by Stephan »

Hi Martin, have you any recommendation? I plan to add some values at low tps, especially 3-4k area.
MK_WF
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Re: Red storm dyno - hp on engine

Post by MK_WF »

I've tried to let the high advance come in earlier compared to the Ingi-map, to add low end grunge but it didn't feel good to ride. (Was a bit more rough than before)
So changed back to the Igni-map in the low TPS / rpm range.
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Martin
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Stephan
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Re: Red storm dyno - hp on engine

Post by Stephan »

Ok, I change the plan to do just nothing :) Anyway bike is not in working condition now, since exhaust will be repaired from last track visit.
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Varastorm
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Re: Red storm dyno - hp on engine

Post by Varastorm »

Stephan wrote:Anyway bike is not in working condition now, since exhaust will be repaired from last track visit.
That sounds bad Stephan, what's happened?

Are you okay? Is the bike okay?
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Stephan
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Re: Red storm dyno - hp on engine

Post by Stephan »

Varastorm wrote:
Stephan wrote:Anyway bike is not in working condition now, since exhaust will be repaired from last track visit.
That sounds bad Stephan, what's happened?

Are you okay? Is the bike okay?
light crash, lowside at lowspeed when exit the corner. Only real damage is exhaust, left has deformed inner tube and carbon had gone. It will be repaired with new titan sleeves :)

I even didn't scratch my helmet at all.
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AMCQ46
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Re: Red storm dyno - hp on engine

Post by AMCQ46 »

Stephan wrote:
light crash, lowside at lowspeed when exit the corner. Only real damage is exhaust, left has deformed inner tube and carbon had gone. It will be repaired with new titan sleeves :)

I even didn't scratch my helmet at all.

been there done that :( fortunately it was a low noise track day, so I had the std Honda silencers on and they double as crash bars :thumbup:

hope you get the bike fixed soon
AMcQ
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Stephan
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Re: Red storm dyno - hp on engine

Post by Stephan »

AMCQ46 wrote:
Stephan wrote:
light crash, lowside at lowspeed when exit the corner. Only real damage is exhaust, left has deformed inner tube and carbon had gone. It will be repaired with new titan sleeves :)

I even didn't scratch my helmet at all.

been there done that :( fortunately it was a low noise track day, so I had the std Honda silencers on and they double as crash bars :thumbup:

hope you get the bike fixed soon
bike should be ready next week. I hope to manage final dyno run then.
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Stephan
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Re: Red storm dyno - hp on engine

Post by Stephan »

went for dyno yesterday, we did final adjustment of pilot screws (each cylinder 12.8.-13 AFR at idle). But when doing dyno run, I got clutch slip, so not able to finish it, what was really annoying. It is a shame, because I really wanted to see/show final result, but clutch will be sorted next year. On the road and track, it was not big issue and I rode it without problem.

Next year I will try open airbox. My mate has lambda sensor and datalogging tool, hope it will be fun.
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