How to remove and refit CCT's on the Firestorm

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hammie
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Re: How to remove and refit CCT's on the Firestorm

Post by hammie » Fri Jan 13, 2012 2:37 pm

couple more questions, bike stripped now and ready for replacements, cams in correct positions and marks lined up etc, to clarify the movement [ie up and down ie slack] sorry for my mis use of deflection ie side to side, so i should be looking for 5-7mm of up down movement in the cam chain between the cam sprockets?????? i have not taken my cct off yet, and with everything in the correct postion i have NO MOVEMENT IN THE CHAIN AT ALL, is this how it should be on adj ccts???
cheers hammie

ps i will attempt this evening with the replacements

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AMCQ46
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Re: How to remove and refit CCT's on the Firestorm

Post by AMCQ46 » Fri Jan 13, 2012 3:11 pm

yes is the slack between the cam sprockets.

the reason there is no slack with the auto CCT is that they are spring loaded, so they try and remove all the slack when stationary
AMcQ

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hammie
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Re: How to remove and refit CCT's on the Firestorm

Post by hammie » Fri Jan 13, 2012 11:58 pm

cheers for that, will be tommorrow now

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hammie
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Re: How to remove and refit CCT's on the Firestorm

Post by hammie » Mon Jan 16, 2012 8:29 pm

bazzas manual ccts fitted today, followed the guide, all back together and running tickety boo, gave it a new air filt spark plugs and an oil change to boot, how i did mine was as per guide, screwed them in as tight as i could by hand and turned em back a quarter turn, this was giving me around 5-7mm of free play in the cam chain, had to hegde my bets on the front one with this adjustment as i didnt have the front cam cover off, road tested, and sounds and rides as it did before change, no undue noises above what it had before [normal sound of my engine???] and peace of mind.
Now to check the swingarm linkage, wouldnt have thought of looking at it but for the info on here, it all looks a bit minging under there, will have to see when i strip it down tommorrow, any bets on new bearings lol
cheers and thanks hammie

boz
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Re: How to remove and refit CCT's on the Firestorm

Post by boz » Thu May 24, 2012 10:03 pm

Managed to get my manual CCT's done last week with the help of 2 great lads.....thanks to the instructions Sirch. Spot on and easy to follow.
However, It developed an oil leak from the rear CCT. I stripped the bike back as per the instructions and removed the rear CCT. Cleaned it up and thread locked it then put it all back. The bike started fine but there was a bit of backfiring from the exhaust and a rattle sound I thought was coming from the rear cam area. I backed the CCT off a quarter turn and the rattle stopped. Jumped on the bike for a spin and noticed a rattle from what I think is the front. Thing is, I never touched that CCT. It was OK before I re-fitted the rear one.
Is there any possible effect on the front CCT when you tinker with the rear one? I'm gutted if I have to now strip it all back to re-adjust the front CCT. What if I do that, put it all back then it still isn't right?
Any advice would be appreciated.
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sirch345
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Re: How to remove and refit CCT's on the Firestorm

Post by sirch345 » Fri May 25, 2012 8:31 am

Boz,

When you removed the rear CCT to put some thread lock on the threads are you sure you set the valve timing as per instructions, as this is VERY important :?: If you're sure you did then removing the rear CCT will have no effect on the front CCT.

One thing that puzzles me is,
I backed the CCT off a quarter turn and the rattle stopped
It should have stopped rattling after it was tightened up, not backed off :?: May be you meant tightened up.

Is the bike still back firing :?: If it is and it wasn't before replacing the CCT's with manuals, you'll need to check the valve timing for both cylinders. To do this you will need to remove both cam covers. Unless of course you've manged to damage one of the spark plug caps when doing the job, which is causing it to backfire.

Chris.
A closed mouth gathers no foot. :thumbup:

boz
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Re: How to remove and refit CCT's on the Firestorm

Post by boz » Fri May 25, 2012 10:26 am

sirch345 wrote:Boz,

When you removed the rear CCT to put some thread lock on the threads are you sure you set the valve timing as per instructions, as this is VERY important :?: If you're sure you did then removing the rear CCT will have no effect on the front CCT.

One thing that puzzles me is,
I backed the CCT off a quarter turn and the rattle stopped
It should have stopped rattling after it was tightened up, not backed off :?: May be you meant tightened up.

Is the bike still back firing :?: If it is and it wasn't before replacing the CCT's with manuals, you'll need to check the valve timing for both cylinders. To do this you will need to remove both cam covers. Unless of course you've manged to damage one of the spark plug caps when doing the job, which is causing it to backfire.

Chris.
Thanks for the reply Chris,
Yes I set the timing as per your instructions. I was mistaken though, the rattle is coming from the rear (need my hearing checked)!
Started it up this morning and took it round the block and there is no backfire now. There is a loud rattle still and every so often a noise like the one you get when you put it in gear.
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sirch345
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Re: How to remove and refit CCT's on the Firestorm

Post by sirch345 » Sat May 26, 2012 9:02 am

boz wrote: Thanks for the reply Chris,
Yes I set the timing as per your instructions. I was mistaken though, the rattle is coming from the rear (need my hearing checked)!
Started it up this morning and took it round the block and there is no backfire now. There is a loud rattle still and every so often a noise like the one you get when you put it in gear.
Boz, good news it's not back firing anymore.

You still haven't said if you did back the tension off when you adjusted the rear CCT the first time. Normally going on, if you have a rattle (especially if you've just fitted manual CCT's like you have) the manual CCT needs tightening up a tad (screwing in, turning clockwise) not backing off (screwing out, turning anti-clockwise). All adjustments should be done when the engine is up to full working temperature.

A job to tell what that other noise is without hearing it, but a lot of Firestorms have a tendency to spit back through the carbs now and again, especially at tick over. If that's what it is, raising the tick-over speed helps. So does balancing the carbs.

Chris.
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Re: How to remove and refit CCT's on the Firestorm

Post by boz » Sat May 26, 2012 3:58 pm

Yeah sorry I did mean tightened up, not backed off.
Anyway, I went back out this afternoon, heated the bike up and gave it a bit more tightening, only hand tight though while the engine was running hot. It made no difference. I am now stripping it all back again so I can check the tension on the chain and just to refit it all again. Have just to put the tank back on, just waiting for a hand to do that while I do the hoses. I fitted the CCT by counting the threads on the front one and will see how it goes when I get the tank on later.
Will post the results. As far as the carb balance goes, that makes sense.Going to order a carb balancer during the week and get it done (yeah I know you can make one but I don't trust my DIY skills). Thanks for the help Chris :thumbup:
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tony.mon
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Re: How to remove and refit CCT's on the Firestorm

Post by tony.mon » Sat May 26, 2012 4:51 pm

I'm a bit concerned by the phrase "counting the threads on the front one".

Do you mean that you just fitted the rear one with the same number of threads showing as the front one has?

If so, do it properly; tank off, rear cam cover off, refit cct and check chain slack on teh top run between the cam sprockets.

One will usually be different to the other.
It's not falling off, it's an upgrade opportunity.

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sirch345
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Re: How to remove and refit CCT's on the Firestorm

Post by sirch345 » Sat May 26, 2012 5:59 pm

tony.mon wrote:I'm a bit concerned by the phrase "counting the threads on the front one".

Do you mean that you just fitted the rear one with the same number of threads showing as the front one has?

One will usually be different to the other.
I was a little concerned about that myself.

I agree with Tony, one will usually be showing more thread than the other.

Chris.
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boz
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Re: How to remove and refit CCT's on the Firestorm

Post by boz » Sat May 26, 2012 6:47 pm

Well I seem to have lucked out fellas, I really don't know why I counted the threads. Think it was a case of false logic. I was panicking a bit because I knew that I did do things to the letter before and couldn't understand why it was still rattling after adjustment. I was just wanting a guideline to initially set the rear CCT but now I know there was no need for that so long as I got near enough the correct tension on the chain, I could fine tune it later. Remember you're talking to an idiot here who panics all to easily! All is good now though, no more rattles or oil leak.
When I fired it up on the choke, after I put the choke in it died. Started again and kept it going with the throttle until it got warm and it kept cutting out. I upped the tick over and it was still just cutting out. The engine sounded laboured and un-even. I've had this on previous bikes (all 4 cylinders, this is my first twin) and it was the carbs. So I'm away to buy a balancer and have a go at that next. Thanks for the posts fellas, its appreciated. At least others can see some things they shouldn't do now :thumbup:
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sirch345
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Re: How to remove and refit CCT's on the Firestorm

Post by sirch345 » Sat May 26, 2012 9:03 pm

boz wrote: When I fired it up on the choke, after I put the choke in it died. Started again and kept it going with the throttle until it got warm and it kept cutting out. I upped the tick over and it was still just cutting out. The engine sounded laboured and un-even. I've had this on previous bikes (all 4 cylinders, this is my first twin) and it was the carbs. So I'm away to buy a balancer and have a go at that next. Thanks for the posts fellas, its appreciated. At least others can see some things they shouldn't do now :thumbup:
Not wishing to pour cold water on your fire now you're getting somewhere but, it sounds like the CCT is now to tight seeing as it won't tick over. Do you get a squeak or chirp sound as you press the start button :?: If you do you'll definitely need to back it off a tad or two,

Chris.
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Re: How to remove and refit CCT's on the Firestorm

Post by boz » Sat May 26, 2012 9:31 pm

sirch345 wrote:
boz wrote: When I fired it up on the choke, after I put the choke in it died. Started again and kept it going with the throttle until it got warm and it kept cutting out. I upped the tick over and it was still just cutting out. The engine sounded laboured and un-even. I've had this on previous bikes (all 4 cylinders, this is my first twin) and it was the carbs. So I'm away to buy a balancer and have a go at that next. Thanks for the posts fellas, its appreciated. At least others can see some things they shouldn't do now :thumbup:
Not wishing to pour cold water on your fire now you're getting somewhere but, it sounds like the CCT is now to tight seeing as it won't tick over. Do you get a squeak or chirp sound as you press the start button :?: If you do you'll definitely need to back it off a tad or two,

Chris.
I'll check that in the morning Chris and post the result. Can't remember if I did hear such a noise upon ignition, but if so 'ill back it off a very little bit at a time. Thanks again for your attention :thumbup:
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Re: How to remove and refit CCT's on the Firestorm

Post by sirch345 » Sun May 27, 2012 9:01 am

Hi Boz,

I assuming it ticked over fine before this last rear CCT adjustment, in which case I'm sure it's set to tight :!:

You don't want to be running it for long if at all if that is the case. With the cam chain being to tight you're causing pressure (downward force) on the white metal (soft) surfaces which are the bearings as such for the camshafts, although non replaceable on their own as they are a machined part of the cylinder head. Depending on how much pressure is being placed on them, they're very easy damaged quite quickly :!:

Just to go back over what you actually did on rechecking the rear cylinder. First off you set the valve timing to the correct point for the rear cylinder as instructions state. To set the cam chain tension at the initial fitting stage of your manual CCT, you should have had between 1/4" and 3/8" (6mm to 9.5mm) deflection (up and down movement) between the cam sprockets. To check that you will need to remove the chain guide (when doing that make sure you do not drop the side bolt down inside the engine. Fill the cam tunnel with a clean cloth before removing that side bolt. You may need to make a fine adjustment once the engine is up to working temperature.

A very good tip from Tony is to make sure you have a ring spanner holding the adjuster bolt before slackening off the CCT locking nut. Otherwise the tension can slacken off very quickly when the engine is running.

Also make sure the CCT lock nut is done up tight after adjustment, some have had them undo. Using a thread-lock (as you have done) or silicone on the threads of the adjuster bolt in the CCT housing and lock nut is definitely recommended.

Chris.
A closed mouth gathers no foot. :thumbup:

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