How to remove and refit CCT's on the Firestorm

[Jim67]

Thanks for that sirch, very well put !!!!
you da man !!!!

Cheers,
Jim.

[tony.mon]

followed instructions,worked out perfect..thanks

There you go, Sirch- the very first post from a person and he's already changed the CCT's.

An example to us all, and Mr Honda- rotate in your grave from shame.
IMHO.

He's only got the R1/6 reg rec and clutch seal to go....

[satanzhand]

Hi all I am new to site,

The spring snapped on the front CCT on my 97 vtr 1000, 40,000km at the beginning of the year... I have only just put a set of new APE manual tensioners in.

The problem is this... I am lazy and could not be bothered rechecking the valve timing. Now, everythings back together. I firer her up and she starts no more slappy lose chain noise, great. But the baby is backfiring, just a little through the exhaust then once through the carb (and doesn't really want to idle without a bit more gas)...seems to be coming only from the front cylinder, surprise surprise.

So what do you guys/gals think should be my next move? I'm thinking maybe I over tightened the CCT/s? but would that produce that type of reaction? or am I going to have to strip it back again and do the TDC bit and go from there.

Many thanks for your answers

[satanzhand]

Well, I have stripped the bike back down again as I have worked out that the cams are out.

Can anyone tell me an easy trick to reset them as they are totally out of wack.

I am following the procedure at the beginning of the thread, but any tips are most welcome.

[sirch345]

Well, I have stripped the bike back down again as I have worked out that the cams are out.

Can anyone tell me an easy trick to reset them as they are totally out of wack.

I am following the procedure at the beginning of the thread, but any tips are most welcome.

Hi Satanzhand,

I can't really advice you a lot more than what I've written at the beginning of this thread for replacing the CCT's. Just start by setting the valve timing for the rear cylinder first as I've stated.

I don't know how you have gone about removing the front cam cover, but the best option is to remove the carbs etc for re-setting the valve timing, you can see much better what you are doing and access is easier. If you're only a few teeth out (fingers crossed you are) you've probably got away with it, but it's possible you've bent some valves in the front cylinder going by the way you say it's now running. So I would imagine the timing is a lot of teeth out I hope I'm wrong

HTH,

Chris.

[satanzhand]

yeah, I followed your advise last night, thanks for that. It was only a little out and I'm pretty sure there's no damage. I must have been half asleep last night when I did it cause now I've set the front 180 out... (I think) so I could not start it today. So I have pulled the front cover off again and am currently (just stopped for dinner) resetting the front again.

Access isn't great but I can get to the front without removing the gas tank etc but yeah it is heaps easier to take the carbs off. Just putting that hose back on the air box and rocker cover is a bitch.

A quick question though my sprockets have two sets of ri re on them wtf I'm using the lone set to align, plus the cam nobs, everything so I'm hoping thats the right thing to do.

[satanzhand]

I re-adjusted the cams 180 degrees as that appeared to be the prob....

Now I've got no fire up... just a kinda limp almost firing... arrr. I've had enough for tonight.

Any thoughts anyone.

[sirch345]

A quick question though my sprockets have two sets of ri re on them wtf I'm using the lone set to align, plus the cam nobs, everything so I'm hoping thats the right thing to do.

Just to go over this, although I see you have now done it, from one of your latest posts.

I presume you set the valve timing for the rear cylinder (as in my advice at the beginning of this thread) taking note the cam lobes and RE and RI marks are facing the right way. You then turn the engine over Anti-Clockwise 450 degrees (one and a quarter turns) and line up the FT mark for the front cylinder.
On the front cylinder, if you're using the correct marks on the cam sprockets the FE and FI marks should be more less level with the top of the cylinder head (you may not be able to get them exactly if the cam chain has stretched) and are facing away from each other. The cam lobes (nobs as you called them) should also be facing away from each other, best way I can think of to describe that is, if you look at the face of a clock on a wall, with 12 oclock at the top they would be approximately at the 10 to 2 position. Hope you understand that.

I can't understand why it didn't run even if the valve timing was 180 degrees out, it should have. I still feel you have bent some valves going by the way you described it was running. So I would suggest you run a compression test on both cylinders if you can't get it to run properly once you have set the valve timing correctly. If the compression test shows both cylinders have the same compression you can then rule out any bent valves. Good luck with it,

Chris.

[satanzhand]

I think I have the stuff up nailed down, now.

Here are some things I have checked this morning and some admissions.

Firstly I have checked fuel, air, spark their all good for both cylinders
I am almost 100% sure there are no bent valves or damage(this mainly because the engine ran fine but chain slappy only before the cct removal also, I've worked on enough engines to know the sound (but no v-twins mind due)).

I ran this little test this morning for my neighbours. I removed the front spark plug and fired it up the bike will run sweet on just the rear cylinder only. When I replace the front spark plug the bike wont start.

So what I think I have done is this, please let me know if I am on the right track here.

Going off your last post, (thank you for your time) I must have (and did) set the front cam lobes facing in just like the rear ones. And I see you have stated to set the front lobes facing out and up (10 and 2) and I guess that means the rear should be facing in. Makes sense

This kind of fits in with my next move which was/is to change to the above settings (front lobes out at 10 and 2 and rear lobes set vertical inverse) and see if tdc etc still lines up and the engine turns safely and fire her up. It seems to me this might account for why the engine wont fire with the front plug in as it must be stuffing up the firing sequence. A kind of mechanical rock block!

I'd be interested in anyone's thoughts

[Beamish]

A kind of mechanical rock block!

brilliant

[sirch345]

Satanzhand,

If your bike ran OK just the cam chain slapping about when the front CCT failed then I would say you're right, no damage was done to the valves, I was just going by your description of how the engine was running after replacing the CCT's with fixed ones.

I take it you must have removed the fuel tank to fit the front Ape CCT, either that or you've got very small hands If so have you put the vacuum pipe back on to the fuel tap in the correct position, it's the horizontal outlet and not the one facing towards the ground (this info is for the earlier model 16ltr tank only). If the vacuum pipe is not connected as it should be that would explain why it only runs on one cylinder properly, because it's not getting enough fuel.

Getting back to the valve timing.
You are right the rear cam lobes will be facing in and up as you put it, although the RE and RI will be facing away from each other (as described in section (9) at the beginning of this thread) if you're on the right stroke at tdc.

**Edit**
I've just been going over your posts again.
Regarding the tension of the fixed CCT's, if they're too tight the engine won't tick over properly, also on starting you should hear a chirp or squeak as the engine is fired up, that's the cam chain pressing too hard on the guide.

Chris.

[LotusSevenMan]

Sirch is right. Too tight and they squeek and can have a slightly erratic tickover and then the engine stops for apprently no reason. Amazing how 'slack' they have to appear to be IMHO anyway.

[satanzhand]

Its looking good so far I made the adjustments yesterday and all seemed good. I just have to go back and re-tighten torque/lock tight everything.


Funny you should mention that pipe as I almost missed it assembling the tank etc.

The deal with the chain slackness is partly why I have a lot of faith that the chain didn't jump a tooth/teeth after the cct spring snapped (that and the chain guide)

[satanzhand]

rrrrrrrrrr she's all running today.

Just gotta do an oil changed and I'll be causing havoc in no time.

[satanzhand]

I changed the oil and filter today. I gave the bike a good blast up the road.

One thing I have noticed is the APE cct's need to be adjusted a little looser than what APE recommended (1/4 inch). I have adjusted the APE cct's to the 1/4 inch of chain slack then added another 1/4-1/3 inch turn from the cct and now its mint.