Paint issue

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agentpineapple
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Paint issue

Post by agentpineapple » Mon Aug 24, 2015 6:56 pm

As some of you might know, I recently tried to paint the rhs panel on my bike, I didn't have the money to take it to a paint shop, so I had to give it a go myself, some might say foolish, but I didn't want to leave it as it was.
so I ordered a can of paint from this online company.,
http://www.ebay.co.uk/usr/fiona_mcgowan ... 7675.l2559
I've used them before and I've always been happy with their product, that is until now.... :(
the paint match was no where near what it should be, I understand there are many variables involved in getting a similar colour match, but this shade was way off.
so I send an email to the paint company, explaining the situation, I also attach 5 photo's so they can see for themselves.
and this is the reply I received.


"Im sorry to hear that the colour you have received is not correct, It is very strange, as we have this colour mixed in a 20 litre batch, and then inserted into aerosol,tins, or touch up kits. Each time we sell this colour we use the same batch, we have had no complaints from any other customers on this colour, the colour is very very popular. There is a number of issues regarding paint and painting of mettalic colours.
(1) A fade out teqniquie also know as (blending out) may be required to blend the colour into other areas of the car.. Mettalic colours especially require blending.
(2) possible different colour shades, As stated in our listing the ""The PAINTS are mixed in a computerised mixing lab and are an accurate match to the standard shade of the factory colour in the title.""
It is possible that you require the darker or lighter shade of this colour, we mix the standard shade that is on 95% of the cars, there is darker and lighter shades of all car colours."

Best wishes
Fiona Hibiscus

now this isn't a small firm, they list over 126.000 items on ebay, I just want peoples opinion, am I being palmed off. looks to me like a standard copy and paste answer, hence using the word car in the blurb.
so what would you do??????
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BrianC
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Location: Leyland, lancs

Re: Paint issue

Post by BrianC » Mon Aug 24, 2015 7:11 pm

Hello marty

I presume you have read their feedback - its pants, especially wrt paint matches.

Did you just get a tin or an aerosol? Its funny they talk about having a 20ltr batch already mixed up. Which colour was it ? My painter got a great match when he did my bellypan and i got great match aerosol for repainting the mudguard on storm 2, from my autofactors the mudguard on has been yellow in a previous life. Only thing is it needs a laquer over the base coat.

It sounds like they are playing you

Brian

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alanfjones1411
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Location: watford

Re: Paint issue

Post by alanfjones1411 » Mon Aug 24, 2015 7:17 pm

Google rsbikepaint.com. They have matched a kawasaki zx9r and suzuki bandit standard colours perfectly in their rattle cans in the past for me.
SO WHEN DOES THIS OLD ENOUGH TO KNOW BETTER KICK IN

BrianC
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Re: Paint issue

Post by BrianC » Mon Aug 24, 2015 7:27 pm

Rs have a great reputation

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agentpineapple
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Re: Paint issue

Post by agentpineapple » Mon Aug 24, 2015 7:33 pm

BrianC wrote:Hello marty

I presume you have read their feedback - its pants, especially wrt paint matches.

Did you just get a tin or an aerosol? Its funny they talk about having a 20ltr batch already mixed up. Which colour was it ? My painter got a great match when he did my bellypan and i got great match aerosol for repainting the mudguard on storm 2, from my autofactors the mudguard on has been yellow in a previous life. Only thing is it needs a laquer over the base coat.

It sounds like they are playing you

Brian
hi brian
I only chose them because i'd used there paint in the past and it was ok, it was a rattle can, and it was the late model pearlescent yellow, I sort of sussed something wasn't right as I just got one can of colour, and in the past when painting pearlescent (different company) I got a base paint and a colour. at the end of the day it's cost me £20, not the end of the world.
and yes I've heard good things about RSpaints, if I choose to paint again i'll find a better company... :lol:
I just don't like being fobbed off and the reply I got was being fobbed off imho.
as things stand I would advise everyone to avoid this company
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popkat
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Re: Paint issue

Post by popkat » Mon Aug 24, 2015 7:36 pm

They are right when they say about blending, you can't match a metallic colour perfectly with the original paint, by blending you fade it into the next panel so it doesn't stand out, if you dented a car door and just painted the door it would look a different colour to the rest of the car, if you blend it into the panels for and aft you wouldn't notice the difference (well you could but you'd have to look hard).

Colour match should be correct though, yours looks like a different shade and on your bike it can only be blended into the centre fairing panel, it would still look off as the match isn't good.

Are they trying to fob you off, I don't think that but I do think they are sure the match is correct and think your wrong..

Do you think that your paint was a bit thin, would more coats make the match better ? and have you lacquered it ?, hard to tell from pictures.

.
http://www.bidefordmotorcycles.co.uk
2014 CRMC Post classic Superbike champion.
2014 CRMC Post classic senior production champion. On a Suzuki Katana 1100
My bikes, Firestorm, Yamaha MT10SP, 2 x Honda RC24 road and race, Popup Katana and a some XJ600's

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agentpineapple
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Re: Paint issue

Post by agentpineapple » Mon Aug 24, 2015 8:11 pm

used a whole 400ml can on one panel malc, at least 4 to 5 coats, and I did blend the paint towards the rear of the panel, and the colour match is still way off, and as you say, even if i'd blended the front panel, it would still look very bad, there's no way that colour is within 5% lighter/darker shade.
never in a million year, i'm wondering if I take the can to a good paint shop, would they be able to check to see what colour code it really is, there's enough let in the can to do a small tester on an old piece of fairing.
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Wicky
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Re: Paint issue

Post by Wicky » Mon Aug 24, 2015 8:40 pm

Problem is the original yellow paint could well have changed under the effect of sunshine etc. So when you apply new 'matching' paint it won't completely match. Hence why you needed to do localised blending on and just around the repaired areas.

In Art yellow pigments are notorious for fading even in paintings kept indoors esp watercolours which must be kept out of direct sunlight

http://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign ... s-brighter

How old is the bike? 15 years in and out outdoors can have significant effect. The red VTR paint can turn a fetching shade of pink!
It may be that your whole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others.

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agentpineapple
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Re: Paint issue

Post by agentpineapple » Mon Aug 24, 2015 11:11 pm

Fair points wicky, The bikes 12yrs old and under 20k on the clock and from what I can tell it's not been left out in all weathers, and the paints in very good condition mate, I used to be a car valeter, and i'm still a good judge of paint work condition. and i'm still convinced the colour I was sold isn't correct.
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Shauned71
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Re: Paint issue

Post by Shauned71 » Tue Aug 25, 2015 3:39 am

I wouldn't say you were being fobbed off, certainly nothing there strikes me as bull poo. I would say they are being a bit vague and that they could of gone into a lot more detail to explain why you may have a colour mismatch. Just to address the '20lt' mix... the larger the mix, the less chance or error... Some tinters are very strong, one drop over in a small mix and the colour becomes waste product... one drop over on a large mix, it wouldn't be enough to be a problem. Another possibility, they may buy in the ready mixed colour and put them into cans as needed rather than mixing themselves.

General info...

There are so many variables that can effect the match and that is without taking the product itself into consideration. When it comes to metallics/pearls the amount of coats, the spray distance from the panel, wet coats and dry coats, thin or thick material... and it gets worse using spray guns... gun set up, high and low pressure to name a couple more. All these things can effect a colour making it lighter or darker... these alone are enough to warrant blending with many colours regardless to how good the match is from the tin. To go into a bit more depth as an example... pressure. When painting metallics, higher pressure will cause the metallics which are heavy to sink further into the coats, lower pressure will allow the metallics to lay on top of the coats.. metallics are silver so the more or less silver you see = lighter and darker shades.

For you Marty...

Yellow.. fade.. Nah. That wouldn't be an issue, certainly not a problem that couldn't be corrected with blending... and I can say that without looking close at your bike.

Without seeing your bike, the panel you have painted and the product up close I couldn't say if it was down to a bad mix, poor colour matching in general or any other possible problem. I would say and I can't stress this enough.. TEST CARD!!! Unless you are working with a familiar colour/product then knock up a test card... first off it's to check your match but it also gives you an idea of how many coats you need to get up to colour.

Pearlescent... it's nothing special. Pearls have been around for years and are a lot more common than most folk realise. It's not necessarily harder to spray or match.. that comes down to the colour itself plus some of the variables as mentioned above. Some of the past metallics were rights b8stard to match yet some were great and it's pretty much the same thing with pearls. As for basecoat/undercoat.. not all colours need a specific base and when that is the case the general rule of thumb is spray over white. You can ofc use a coloured primer or use a similar colour as a base if you have suitable products at hand and either will help your colour with coverage. What colour primer did you use? I'm sure I saw you mention that you used white primer on FB. Was it white or white ish? What I call white is like the new Fords or Audis.. in some cases the further away from that the harder to cover... not saying hard, just harder. It's no problem if the shade of white is going in the direction of the colour but... for example lets say going slightly grey.. for a colour like your yellow.. the more towards grey the white is, the more green it will look at first which in turn means more coats for coverage.

Last but not least... and i'm not saying that this is the problem, again without seeing up close and knowing and having used the product it's left to guess work but 4-5 coats.. that's not necessarily a lot of coats, the older storm yellow 'Pearl Shining Yellow' which is a richer colour... takes more coats than that and that was actually over Audi abis white which is pretty much as white as white gets now days. It took 4 coats to get up to colour when I painted my first storm orange and that was a 3 stage pearl, again over white.

If I was you mate... I would knock up a small test card with the colour you have left. White base and expect at least 6 coats while following their instructions as close as poss. Remember.. you can't have too many coats on products like these... it's candy colours you get that problem with, more coats = darker/richer. If you are then still having trouble matching (even if you are blending it should be a reasonable match) if it was me I'd be looking for someone to throw the can at.

To anyone who is having a crack at painting....

What do you clean your panels down with... not suggesting that anyone on here does it but I have seen in the past in various places folk mention that they use brake cleaners and the like to clean off before paint. To anyone who does use products like that, stop trying to justify it's use, stick that sh1t away and buy the proper stuff.. And here's a good reason why.... If you buy your self a medium speed pre paint wipe or panel wipe.. (same thing) it does the same job at cleaning but... after you have put a good few coats of base on and the base has dried to the touch you can give the part a good wet wipe over with panel wipe.. the medium panel wipe doesn't evaporate as quick so will temporarily act like a coat of lacquer allowing you to use the freshly sprayed panel to compare against the original panel in order to get a better idea of the colour match before committing to clear. It can also highlight some blemishes that can't be seen until the clear is applied too.

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agentpineapple
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Re: Paint issue

Post by agentpineapple » Tue Aug 25, 2015 8:37 am

some great info there shaun.... :thumbup:
and yes I used a white primer, but I didn't cover the whole of the panel in it, towards the rear of the panel I left it with the original paint and blended it, but eve there the paint's an obvious poor match, so in this case I don't think the primer is the over riding issue, maybe I was shy of the number of coats needed, I made sure each coat provide very good coverage, but it's a fair point, the catch 22 is do I go and get another can from say rs paints and try again, I will need some more lacquer as well, so that will be another £40 thrown at it, or should I leave it as it is and save up for the panel to be spayed properly.
and for what it's worth, I clean the panels with the proper wipes.
thanks for the info shaun, always good to have a pro's input..... :thumbup:
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